Ineligibles Downfield

[Smiley]

I have always believed that in order for an ineligible to legally be in the expanded neutral zone (beyond the neutral zone) before a legal forward pass is in flight, he had to be blocking a B lineman. If he is beyond the neutral zone otherwise he is illegally downfield. But the rule (7-5-12) doesn't say this. It says "Inelegible A players may not advance beyond the EXPANDED neutral zone ..." Did something get changed or was I just mistaken? The statement made later in the same article "An ineligible is not illegally downfield if, at the snap, he immediately contacts a B lineman and the contact does not continue beyond the expanded neutral zone" seems superfluous to the first statement, i.e., he wouldn't be illegally downfield until he was beyond the expanded neutral zone in any case. What am I missing?

[Mike Simonds]

You bring up a good point about the ineligible rule in your first sentence. Ineligibles cannot advance beyond the neutral zone at any time prior to the time the legal forward pass that crosses the neutral zone leaves the passer's hand. The only time they can be beyond the neutral zone is if they are blocking a B player within the expanded neutral zone. Also remember that if you read the NF case book under chapter 7 the ineligibles cannot block a B player beyond the expanded neutral zone otherwise they commit offensive pass interference.

Last season had a play where the QB rolls out right, an OL who is not blocking anyone drifts down field about 5 yards, then retreats behind the line, defensive CB comes up because he thinks OL is pulling out to run block, then QB throws a touchdown to the CB's uncovered receiver. As the umpire I was in a good position to make the call. Coach did not like it because he thought the OL lineman just had to be back at the time the pass was thrown. But the intent of the rule is that they must be back at all times during the period before the pass is thrown. As you can see from my example, the offense had gained an unfair advantage during this play.

Rule 7 needs to be read in conjunction with the related definitions in rule 2. Don't have my rule books handy but perhaps another official can get back to you about the rule reference for blocking in the expanded neutral zone.

[Smiley]

Your understanding agrees with mine. Problem is in 1999, a change was made to 7-5-12 to say that ineligibles are illegally downfield only when going beyond the expanded neutral zone, regardless of whether they were blocking or not. I think this was in error. 1999 was when the rule was changed so that restrictions for ineligibles downfield were terminated when the pass was touched by B behind the line of scrimmage.

[James Neil]

Sorry about this guys .This post doesn't contribute to this thread but it conjured up memories of an experience I had at “Chad Browns Personal Touch Camp” this past Spring (Chad is a NFL Umpire). On the third and final Day all 90 of us Campers bussed over to UCLA to work a full contact scrimmage. I’m pretty excited to begin with but got down right shaky when I seen this will take place in a packed stadium along with marching band, cheerleaders and pom-pom’s girls (and boys 8^). I’m standing there looking like a dear in the headlights when Chad says “Jimmy, get in there”. I run onto the field, grab the ball to spot it and find myself surrounded by a bunch of extremely agitated trash-talking redwoods. I tell them “come-on guys go to your huddles“. All I get are looks that I interprat as “shut-up little-man” lol ...After my set of downs Chad meets me at the sideline. He bends over me (he’s about 6’5”) gets right in my face and softly says “Jimmy...what about the ineligibles down field man? ... That’s your call man ...you gots to make that call Jimmy !” . He turns, walks away and tosses his hands in the air muttering “there were ineligibles down field”. I’m thinking ineligibles? He!!... I don't even remember if they were wearing numbers let alone being downfield. And if they were, they were moving too fast for me to read them anyway. LOL . I figure I need to see 10,000 or so more snaps before my eyes adjust to this level 8^)

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Harry, I believe that your assertion is correct that an ineligible may be in the expanded neutral zone before a legal forward pass is in flight only if he is blocking an opponent. However, for all my criticism of the Federation editors, I think that 7-5-12 got it right:

"Ineligible A players may not advance beyond the expanded neutral zone on a legal forward pass play before the last pass which crosses the neutral zone." This is a true statement--no ineligible player can be beyond the ENZ until the pass is in flight. Yes, some are further restricted (i.e. those not blocking a opponent), but none are permitted to be beyond the ENZ in any event.

"...An ineligible is not illegally downfield if, at the snap, he immediately contacts a B lineman and the contact does not continue beyond the expanded neutral zone." Also true, and it is in this sentence that they codify what criteria must be met for an ineligible to be in the ENZ prior to the pass being in flight. It's this statement which confirms that for some ineligibles the NZ expands, and for others it does not.

[cdnRef]

I like the clarity of the NCAA rule on this topic: 7.3.10.1

I suspect NFHS was trying to accomplish the same sort of thing. Without my rulebook I don't know how far the neutral zone is expanded in NFHS but I assume to the endzone. If that's the case, the only limit they're putting on highschool linemen is that they need to stay out of the endzone when a passing play is developing close to the goal line - a reasonable enough request.

I assume the neutral zone is expanded to the EZ. My question is: what about OPI? i.e. A64 is drives B72 back 10 yards from the LOS and a pass develops in that general vicinity?

[cmathews]

cndref,
The NZ does not expand to the EZ it only expands either 2 or 3 yards. I don't have my books, I do know that if the LOS is the 1 the ENZ does not extend into the EZ..

[Theisey]

NFHS: correct, the Expanded NZ does not include the end zone. It expands up to two yards in the case of pass blocking.
Would I flag a lineman for being one yard into the EZ on a snap/pass play starting at the one? It will have to be further than that before I would.

NCAA: does not have any definition for an expanded NZ. However, a lineman could be blocking an opponent no further than 3 yards down field is said contact started in the NZ