Rules question
 

This has happened twice in Cleveland Browns games this season. In the Baltimore game it was third and three from the 11 yard line, Baltimore had the ball, the runner gained 5 yard to the 6, after the play the runner kicked a Browns player, a flag was thrown and the referee, said "after the play , unsportmanlike conduct agains Baltimore,d penalty and then moved the ball from the 6 yard line to the 21 and said first and ten.

In the Washington game it was third and 8 yards, a pass was completed with enough yardage for a first down. After the catch Pierre Garson was penalized for "taunting" The refereee said, "after the play, a 15 yard penalty against the offense for taunting and marched off 15 yards, now first and ten.

My question in both of these instances is, if a first down had been made, and now a penalty is thrown, why would it not be first and 25 yards instead of marking off a 15 yard penalty and then saying first and 10? Needless to say they lose 15 yards either way, but it is MUCH tougher getting a first down after a first and 25 yards, instead of just moving back 15 yards and then claiming first and ten?

Not sure about the NFL but the other rule codes eliminated 1st and 25 situations several years ago. Only if the foul is committed once the chains are set is a 1-25 scenario possible now.

NFL Rule Book (2012)
Rule 14, Section 8

ADVANCE OF NECESSARY LINE FIRST-AND-10
Article 4 After a distance penalty four a foul by the offensive team during a play from scrimmage which results in the ball being in advance of the necessary line, it is a first-and-10 for the offensive team.

Article 4 and 6 also apply to a dead ball foul of the offensive team at the end of a play from scrimmage during which it has been constantly in possession.

You've kinda answered your own question. 1st-and-25 is basically a turnover, since the chances of making a first down are extremely small.

The rulesmakers felt that the loss of 15 yards in field position was penalty enough.

Under NCAA rules, its once the ready for play has been blown.

Which no longer happens unless there is a stoppage for some reason due to the 40 second play clock

I don't think there would be a 40 second clock after a penalty enforcement, it would be 25 and an RFP.

Incorrect. The referee blows the RFP before every single play.

Especially after a first down when he needs to signal the game clock to restart.

This is not true under NCAA rules. If the clock is set to 40 and runs automatically, there is no RFP blown.

Correct but here he was referring to the foul happening after the RFP. The post was stating there isn't a ready for play whistle or signal after the previous play unless there was an official's time out for something.

So if team A sees the ball on the ground with no official over it, they can go snap it?

No, but that doesn't mean there's a RFP given. The U spots the football and the R directs the U to move away from the ball at the appropriate time (which varies depending on whether A substitutes). Still, there's no RFP blown.

Even then, it's not "technically" a RFP. Ball's spotted, game clock's started, but the 40 second clock is running the entire time. Not what I'd traditionally think of as a RFP.

While I agree, most of those give the "downward chop" RFP, followed immediately by the "wind the clock" signal.

Not trying to start a fight over it, but I have gone to many Big 10 games over the last few years, and their Rs basically never 'chop' before winding the clock in those circumstances. Just my observation.

I'm not a referee at the college level (with the exception of an occasional undercard game), but I can say that I've not seen my referee give the chop nor do I at the HS level (the wind is also the RFP -- I have never seen the point in doing both).

At higher levels, I've noticed the R's don't even blow a whistle when starting the clock if there's a 40 second clock already running.

Fair enough -- different observations at different levels (I run the clock / scoreboard at a JuCo).

I disagree bison, I see no mention of the RFP being blown in the OP and both plays described read like pretty standard DBF's to me.

I was referring to this quote and the conversation that took place after this. There is no RFP blown in many plays so this isn't a specific point of reference regarding 1st and 10 or 1st and 25.

That's funny, I thought it just meant "ready for play". Traditionally. As in ready. For. Play. The ball's either ready for play or it's not.

I have a related question. In a high school game, how do the officials know how to set the clock back to the proper time. I was at a playoff game, and opening play of the fourth quarter the offense commits an illegal procedure penatly. Four seconds ran off the clock, and the clock wasn't reset back to twelve minutes. Was this just an official error?

What's "illegal procedure"?

We check the clock when it is supposed to stop or shouldn't have started and can relay corrections up to the press box. 4 seconds run off at the beginning of the quarter would probably not warrant the hassle of having to correct clock. Many college conferences have guidelines for when to correct timing mistakes.

The most common one I've heard is more than 5 seconds or under 5 minutes in the half. Anything outside let it go. It's not worth the hassle.

We would fix it on the first play of the quarter. It's too obvious to let go, IMO.

This past year we had a kickoff that was touched inbounds by R and went out of bounds. The clock didn't move despite the covering official(s) winding it. As the on-field timekeeper, I went to the R and told him what had happened and that we should take 2 seconds off the clock. He did.

We had an observer and it was one of the positive comments mentioned in our postgame with him.

This was at the college level with a field microphone. My threshold is a bit different in the game where I have to go over to a coach and have him relay information to an assistant coach in the booth who has to then relay the information to the timer.

false start them.....................:o