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bigjohn Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:59pm

Onside Kick?
 
What do they mean when they say onside kick? What is an offside Kick? :confused:

JRutledge Wed Nov 28, 2012 01:00pm

Season end quickly for you this year?

Peace

MD Longhorn Wed Nov 28, 2012 01:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjohn (Post 863914)
What do they mean when they say onside kick? What is an offside Kick? :confused:

The term came from rugby and means the receiver of the kick was behind the line where the ball was when it was kicked.

An offside kick occurs when a member of the kicking team is the first to possess the ball and that kicking team member was beyond the line where the ball was when it was kicked - this results in possession by the receiving team.

Welpe Wed Nov 28, 2012 01:17pm

Ask the coaches and common taters. :)

APG Wed Nov 28, 2012 01:49pm

I'm just happy no one said "onsides" or "offsides" in the thread. ;)

Welpe Wed Nov 28, 2012 02:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by APG (Post 863937)
I'm just happy no one said "onsides" or "offsides" in the thread. ;)

That has become a bit grating to hear, I do admit.

Robert Goodman Thu Nov 29, 2012 05:21pm

It's a term that's never appeared in the rule book, with two exceptions noted below, but was coaching shorthand to refer to the recovery of the ball by an onside player as explained by MD Longhorn upthread. The usage makes no sense when applied to free kicks as today, because if there are offside players of team K, the play's not going to stand up anyway. The term was most useful as applied to recovery by onside players of kicks during general play, as is still legal in Canadian football. In Canadian football rule books, there is one use of the phrase regarding responsibility of officials in "`onside kick' situations", recognizing it as a kind of coaching shorthand that officials would be expected to understand, even though not defined in the rule book.

Similarly, when, fairly recently, the NFL adopted different penalties for free kicks out of bounds under different circumstances, they differentiated between other kicks and an "onside kick", which appears to be implicitly defined (though I'm not sure it is) as one that doesn't go at any time more than 20 yards beyond the previous spot.

Steven Tyler Fri Nov 30, 2012 03:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 864149)
It's a term that's never appeared in the rule book, with two exceptions noted below, but was coaching shorthand to refer to the recovery of the ball by an onside player as explained by MD Longhorn upthread. The usage makes no sense when applied to free kicks as today, because if there are offside players of team K, the play's not going to stand up anyway. The term was most useful as applied to recovery by onside players of kicks during general play, as is still legal in Canadian football. In Canadian football rule books, there is one use of the phrase regarding responsibility of officials in "`onside kick' situations", recognizing it as a kind of coaching shorthand that officials would be expected to understand, even though not defined in the rule book.

Similarly, when, fairly recently, the NFL adopted different penalties for free kicks out of bounds under different circumstances, they differentiated between other kicks and an "onside kick", which appears to be implicitly defined (though I'm not sure it is) as one that doesn't go at any time more than 20 yards beyond the previous spot.

How 'bout dem Argonauts. Justin Bieber halftime was the best ever.

JugglingReferee Fri Nov 30, 2012 05:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler (Post 864187)
How 'bout dem Argonauts. Justin Bieber halftime was the best ever.

Gordon Lightfoot did not disappoint. Living legend.

HLin NC Fri Nov 30, 2012 08:59am

Yeah but they didn't book Rush!:(

Robert Goodman Mon Dec 03, 2012 08:21pm

Recent examples of "onside kick" in the original sense:

amateur

pro

JugglingReferee Tue Dec 04, 2012 07:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 864767)
Recent examples of "onside kick" in the original sense:

amateur

This is now called a return kick. The punter and players behind him are onside and can legally recover + advance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 864767)

Just called a fake field goal. But the kicker and players behind him can recover + advance. In amateur ball, "downs continue" for Team A at Point Ball Dead because Team A was the first to legally touch the ball. In the CFL, they have a quirky rule that Team A gets a first down to matter what. Even though they were 2 yards short of the line to gain, their rule says 1D for Team A.

Notice the Referee properly read the play and move from his spot to watch roughing the kicker/holder to a spot to be in line with the kicker to judge on the legality of the 2 in-motion players' onside status. Great job by R#22!

LJ #29 throws the Restraining Zone flag as he does not know if those two players are onside. Once the crew shares all information, they pick up the flag and award Team A a new series.

JugglingReferee Tue Dec 04, 2012 07:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by HLin NC (Post 864196)
Yeah but they didn't book Rush!:(

They'll be back... :p

Robert Goodman Wed Dec 05, 2012 02:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 864824)
In amateur ball, "downs continue" for Team A at Point Ball Dead because Team A was the first to legally touch the ball. In the CFL, they have a quirky rule that Team A gets a first down to matter what.

The CFL's rule is older. CAFA changed it several years after a CIAU provincial championship in which, to get a 1st down, someone threw a swing pass to a WR who caught and tap-punted the ball across the neutral zone and fell on it. In effect, the old rule made everyone cover the wideouts closely enough to prevent that, regardless of the distance to the line-to-gain. But you'll notice that CAFA didn't change it immediately after that prominent use of the "quirky rule", but a long time later when they must've finally decided that was too cheap a way to get a 1st down.

The even older rule (American & Canadian) was that the continuity of downs was interrupted when the ball was kicked in such a way as to give the other team "fair and equal chance" to recover it.


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