Philosophy of not flagging something when it wouldn't otherwise matter
 

Usually involves PI.

Play: Team A is guilty of OPI, but Team B intercepts the ball anyways. Team B has a 6-yard interception return. When you, the official who passed on the OPI because B caught the ball anyways, look up at the R, he's got a RTP foul.

Discuss.

Are you fer it, or agin' it?

The issue rarely comes up in my neck of the woods.

I was wondering what others thought where it may come up more often.

'"oh, crap"

I've had this happen...

...but, not in conjuction with this.

That would suck.

What was your situation?

The only time I've done something similar is near the end of a blowout game. The team behind holds, illegal shifts, motions, etc. About the only thing we don't let slide, even when the game is out of hand, is a flagrant false start and safety issues.

I've been fortunate never to have had the OPI/RTP, but I have had cases where I ignored a hold by the team that is behind only to have a facemask or DPI on B. But being a blowout....

Besides, in the OP I wouldn't worry too much in a blowout about such an occurrence. And by blowout, I mean something like < 5 minutes left in the game and a team up by 30 or more.

There is too much tape to be passing on obvious fouls like this. I have thrown a couple of flags for OPI and had the interception run back for a TD. I try to call what I see and if I can wait I will, but obvious fouls I do not pass on.

Peace

Even in blowouts?

I had a HS game last year. 4-man crew in a blowout. I was the R and my LJ was my college supervisor. U had no impact on this one play. HL was a guy who can be a good official, but comes up with a weird call every now and again.

Sure enough, mid-4th, losing team (by 4 or 5 TDs) marches with some momentum. Slot is held by his defender about 10-12 yards downfield - they both fall to the ground, and the runner uses the additional open space for a nice 25-yard gain. HL has holding. I didn't call it because it required stopping the clock, etc, and A would decline the B hold anyways.

HL tells me Team A holding. I said what? I said to him that B fell back while grabbing A and that it was a B hold. He says no - I have A holding. He wouldn't pick up his flag. Grrrr. Had I flagged it, I could have done more to waive off his flag.

I have no such philosophy. Nor does anyone on any of the crews I've worked on. Because you will never know what might still happen or what has already happened elsewhere. There is no "it wouldn't otherwise matter".

What happens when you pass on the flag, B fumbles on the return and A scores?

When did this become about blowouts? The OP has nothing to do with officiating differently at the end of a blowout.

It wasn't specified. I qualified my "not flagging something when it wouldn't otherwise matter" to be in the cases of blowouts. I injected blowouts into the conversation.

And I would never ignore a clear flag during a game, other than a blowout situation. And I said that I wouldn't worry about the OP in a blowout.

True, but the question didn't restrict to non-blowouts games either.


If someone has a relevant take during a blowout, I'd read that too.

Considering that the RTP almost certainly happened well before the PI, and that RTP is a safety issue and PI merely a tactical one that didn't prevent the interception, I would not be disappointed in the outcome of the no-call on the latter.

Even as a defensive coach?

Yes, even in blowouts. The only thing I try not to call is overly technical plays. I am very diliberate anyway what I call no matter what the sitation. Obvious things need to be called. And in our state if you get to 40 points the clock runs.

Peace

When I was a new official, I was like this. The noseguard obviously lines up in the NZ, I'd flag it (we are NFHS), regardless of the game situation. But when B is down by 35 in the last 5 minutes of the game, why bother? What real advantage does he gain? It just slows things down.

I want to re-iterate that this is not my philosophy regarding safety issues (FM, chop blocks, RTP, etc). But technical (and as Robert puts it, tactical) stuff? Why bother.

That would be nice. We have a mercy rule for 8 man football, but the clock doesn't come into play. I've done games that ended 70+ to 35. They never reached the threshold for the mercy rule, but it was an obvious blowout. And for 11 man, there is no mercy rule. I've had 70+ to 0 games that took forever. The team behind would not stop passing, and the team ahead would score too quickly. It wasn't unusual to have 4 hour games sometimes. In these games, we definitely don't scrutinize too closely the little stuff.

I was always taught to not call holding just because "actual" holding took place. I call holding when there is an advantage. On passing plays there are a lot of contact sometimes and no advantage. I would only try my best to call when there is a clear advantage. So could the score come into play? I guess it could, but not likely. I know where the ball is thrown would come into play. I know if there was an advantage would come into play. I know if it was so obvious it would show up on tape would come into play. There is no hard fast rule that applies to everything in these cases. I just know that if the foul is there an obvious, I am going to call it. I do not sit back and base calls on the score very often unless it is marginal.

Peace

QB throws a long pass downfield along my L's sideline. The L is trailing the play while I'm moving to stay in position deep and boxing the play in. Normally, the defender is trailing the receiver downfield. In my play, the defensive player beat the receiver "to the spot", but they are both still running full speed. As the ball is descending into the waiting arms of the defender, the intended receiver places his hands on the shoulder pads of the defender. Doesn't matter...the ball lands in the defenders bread basket for an INT as both players fall to the ground. My L couldn't see the hands on the shoulder pads. I could. But, I passed after seeing the defender posses the ball to the ground.

I'd have flagged it anyway. As mentioned before, you don't know for sure what other laundry is already on the field. Not right to not let this offset, when it would have offset had he NOT caught the ball.

Good word....thanks for the feedback.

Yes.

If the DE is being held and still makes the tackle, is it a foul? Generally, no.

Had a play this season where U had holding on A63, R had holding on A73. Assessed one.
At halftime HL says, "Wow, two flags for holding and neither saw the face mask by B33?" :eek:
HL's explanation for not throwing the flag for the FM was he had drifted downfield with his receivers and felt he was too far away to throw the flag, and assumed one of the flags was for it anyway.

--Throw it, can always pick it up. If at a distance, get closer then toss.

Also I've been told several times by the "vets" in my chapter, you never know who may be in the stands watching the game. Their may be someone there evaluating the crew for post season play, or just a casual observer there who can infulance future assignments. It's our job to finish the game weather it's a 1 poss. game or a "mercy" rule game. The kids play til the clock says 0:00 we should do the same.

Amen! Had a second round playoff game last night that ended 70 - 14. If I bring nothing else to a game, at least I know I'm not taking a one single play off.

That sort of thing happened in our game today, the last of the season. Our opponent brought 12 players. After our team scored a TD, one of their players threw his helmet down. That resulted in an immediate DQ. We asked the ref to let him play, but he wouldn't; the league admin. said he wouldn't let him play even if the R did. It was early in the game, which meant the player would not get another chance this fall. And it wasn't like we wanted him to stay in the game as a weak point we could exploit -- which it might've been under other circumstances. So they played with no subs.

We got away with an illegal motion on the try, and eventually won 7-6.

My stance, no matter the sport, is to try and have the tape prove me right each and every time. That means calling the clear and obvious without regard for the time or score.

We were admonished this year in our college meetings to call the call regardless of the score if it is obvious. The reason is there are too many camera angles to ignore the obvious calls.

Kind of too bad the reason was not "because your job is to call what you see." But I understand.

Maybe this question would be better asked in it's own thread, but, I'll ask it here anyway: How many average number of flags would you say your crew (varsity hs) has in any given game?

5-10
11-20
30+

???

I would say the average for HS games here is 12-15 per game.

On average, for HS games, I'd say we have between 10 and 15. We had three games this season under 10. One or two above 15.

Our last game of the season we had 8. Two were KOBs, two were FSTs that could've been called from the last row. So only 4 fouls that required any judgment at all.

If you take away the procedural or pre-snap fouls I think 5-10 is about right. The problem is many of the flags are pre-snap in nature. I know I have gone games where I had no flags, not even a delay of game foul.

Peace