Riddle me this

[bkdow]

The play is this:

3rd down from B's 32. Quarterback drops back to pass. He is sacked at B's 45 with an illegal horse-collar. While going to the ground he (a) fumbles the ball and it is recovered on the 45 by A, or (b) he goes to the ground and retains possession.

What is the enforcement of the horse-collar?

[jTheUmp]

Foul occurs during a loose-ball play, basic spot is the previous spot. 15-yard penalty from the previous spot (B-32). Next snap will be a the B-17, down and distance as appropriate. Have fun explaining it to the B coach.

There is NO automatic 1st down. Have fun explaining that to the A coach if the enforcement doesn't result in a 1st down.

[ump33]

Originally Posted by bkdow

The play is this:

3rd down from B's 32. Quarterback drops back to pass. He is sacked at B's 45 with an illegal horse-collar. While going to the ground he (a) fumbles the ball and it is recovered on the 45 by A, or (b) he goes to the ground and retains possession.

What is the enforcement of the horse-collar?

(a) ... Loose Ball Play; Previous Spot
(b) ... Running Play; End of the Run

[HLin NC]

A) riddle me this back, why do we carry that bean bag?

B) what type of play is this?

[CT1]

My guess is that you're implying that A would profit by intentionally fumbling after the HC. While that's true, do you think a HS player is going to have the presence of mind to do that in the heat of battle? And even if he does, suppose there's no foul called on the play?

[bigjohn]

Mine will, from now on!

[Art N]

I don't know if FED is different than NCAA on this, but isn't a "horse collar" tackle of the ball carrier in the tackle box allowed? Maybe this was a QB out of the pocket?

[jTheUmp]

Horsecollar tackles are allowed on runners inside the tackle box in NCAA. (I never understood the logic behind this exception... if it's a safety foul outside the tackle box, surely it's still a safety foul inside the tackle box).

There is no such thing as a tackle box in FED, and horsecollar tackles are not allowed anywhere.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Art N

I don't know if FED is different than NCAA on this, but isn't a "horse collar" tackle of the ball carrier in the tackle box allowed? Maybe this was a QB out of the pocket?

No penalty for horse collar in the pocket in the NFL either.

[Art N]

Thanks. "That 'splains it, Lucy!"
The only "logic" I can think of for allowing it in the tackle box in NCAA is that maybe they felt the runners were not really up to speed yet in that area, like they could be down field. Only a guess on my part.

[maven]

Originally Posted by CT1

My guess is that you're implying that A would profit by intentionally fumbling after the HC. While that's true, do you think a HS player is going to have the presence of mind to do that in the heat of battle? And even if he does, suppose there's no foul called on the play?

The judgment is even more complex: not only would the runner need to realize that the tackle was a HCT, and to perceive a flag, but he would need to know that that flag was for THAT foul (and not for a hold on his guys). THEN fumbling on purpose could make sense.

Teaching all that is not tactically sound.

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Horsecollar tackles are allowed on runners inside the tackle box in NCAA. (I never understood the logic behind this exception... if it's a safety foul outside the tackle box, surely it's still a safety foul inside the tackle box).

There is no such thing as a tackle box in FED, and horsecollar tackles are not allowed anywhere.

In all honesty, I never understood the sense of HC penalty to begin with. I think it's even more of a sham having designated "legal areas", to boot in NCAA/Pro.

Speaking of tackle box, I'd kick myself if I didn't mention I actually had a JV coach telling his QB to "throw it away" a few weeks back when he was getting pressured and risked a sack like 15 yards behind the LOS after a shotgun snap over the kid's head. They ended up punting on the next play on a 4th and 30+ after all was said and done.

"But sir....he was out of the tackle box!" Good stuff.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Canned Heat

"But sir....he was out of the tackle box!" Good stuff.

They ALWAYS say that, and I have to stifle a snicker and a sarcastic response.

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by maven

They ALWAYS say that, and I have to stifle a snicker and a sarcastic response.

I actually had to compose myself and try not to smile or make him think I wasn't taking him seriously when he wanted to ask me about it....I didn't want to light any more of his fuse, but it was something else. I've had him for probably 6 or 7 years now and still to this day I am not sure if he had a brain freeze or what. The cherry on top was a guy up in the stands howling about it for the next whole series plays....likely the QB's dad if I had to guess.

The quarter ended after the punt, I think, and I discussed with him quickly only to find that the crew the prior week let his QB get away with it the week prior on the same kind of play.

You can't pick your family...or the guys that worked the week prior.

[Adam]

I never believe the "The last crew let us" line. It may or may not be true, but it's usually not.