Rules book and case book
 

For those of you that say books are not to be carried by officials. They are in Ohio


5. NEW EFFECTIVE November 4: We have carried a NFHS Rules Book & Case Book to the field in
the past. However, it has never been written. Now it is. If the HC wants to have a
Coach/Referee conference to discuss a misapplication of a Rule, then do it. If the HC & the
officials disagree on the ruling, then EVERY CREW IS REQUIRED TO SHOW THE HC IN THE RULES
&/or CASE BOOK what the ruling states. Incredibly this year, we had some of the most basic
Penalty Enforcements enforced incorrectly (OPI & DPI). The crew failed to check their books.

http://owvfoa.com/ohio%202011%20playoff%20bulletin.pdf

Had this in my game Friday night: I waved off my own flag for running into the kicker, and the coach demanded to see the rule that allowed me to do that. So I showed him 9-4-5a and explained that in my judgment a kick was not reasonably certain (his punter has muffed the snap and run about 4 yards before kicking the ball).

He disagreed with my judgment but was quite polite about it.

I forgot to assess him a charged TO for that, but that error turned out to make no difference in the game.

What if you had said, "I changed my mind and decided that I was wrong -- it wasn't a foul?"

I can't see how it could ever look good trying to find a citation for a coach -- especially if it takes more than 5 seconds.

Then again, it seems that Ohio is really trying to do its own thing. Some of the things I read in the Gold Book are quite good -- some are amazingly nutty. But then again, when in Rome...

Seems to me the onus should be on the coach to show you the rule if you're going to allow these shananigans.

Yup.

We use to have an NAFL team in my area and I was a Referee. The NAFL uses NFL rules, and the NFL as we all know has challenges.

The NAFL approach to challenges was to allow a coach to keep a rule book with him and if there was a misapplication of a rule, I had to meet him at the sideline and the onus was on him to show the error of the crew. I would then interpret and make a final ruling.

i have the rules and case books on my iphone I know the rules well enough to find the one that is applicable, would you let me use the app? :rolleyes:

One more reason not to live in Ohio. There are many reasons, but this is a big one for me. ;)

Peace

Now, now don't pick on the Buckeye state. Other than Big John, there is alot to offer!

I have been to Ohio several time and I will pass. ;)

Peace

Rich:

I am ruled by the Gold Book these days. I don't always agree with everything in it, but we do as we are told. I'd be interested to know what an outsider considers "amazingly nutty" in it.

Putting the R on the wide side of the field rather than the passing hand side is the first thing that comes to mind. It's much easier for me (as the R) to see a hand coming forward on a pass attempt from the passing hand side and OH seems to be the only state/body to make this rather big switch.

I'll walk through it again and find some other things.

18. R & Toss: Catch the coin or flip the coin again.

Just read the bulletin, lots of sillies according to what I read in this forum.

http://owvfoa.com/ohio%202011%20playoff%20bulletin.pdf

I agree. The other result is that when A runs or throws to the wide side, the R can t help w the ball as he has to rush to the other side of the QB.

I talked about this issue with my umpire, who worked in another state for 15 years. We have no testing beyond the 2nd year, and as a result you have entire crews who last looked in a rule book in 1988.

So what's easier: implementing a system of testing and evaluation of football officials statewide (with something like 4500 officials), or empowering coaches to challenge officials on the rules during a game? We could (and likely will) do both, eventually, but in the short term I think the answer is clear.

I don't read what they're doing as "trying to do its own thing," at least not just change for its own sake. The Gold Book generally and this provision in particular are motivated by a good faith effort to improve the consistency, overall quality, and accountability of football officiating in Ohio.

And as much as we might quibble with this or that mechanic, I think the goal and approach are worthwhile.

There is nothing wrong with having standards or consistency, but I would think the goal would be to use things that work, not use things that are outdated or do not help the officials or the coaches understanding what is being done out there. If you are watching through a passer and cannot see his arm on a pass, how are you going to get "consistency?" It is simply bad.

Peace

Just like every little local league want to tweak the rules for their league, this is no different, just on a larger scale. Why in the world one state (any state) would think they can do better than a national entity is beyond me.

FTR, many of us feel the same way about Illinois. ;)

Be careful. I doubt I'd want to even visit Illinois, much less live there. Politicians (and others) run amok.

I don't have a huge issue with the challenge itself, but with putting the onus on the officials to justify your calls by pointing out the rule when challenged.

Make the coach show you the rule if he thinks you're wrong.

You mean like TASO? :D

In actuality, many TASO mechanics are similar to NFHS and as a whole, when they differ, I believe TASO mechanics are superior.

Same around here, even with a test every year.

There's a lot of differences. I'd hate to be an experienced official who moves to or moves from Ohio.

The only things that stand out that I absolutely do not like (on top of the having to show the rule to the coach and R on the wide side of the field) are:

--Wings working on the field, ever. Especially the mechanic on try kicks. I'm not fond of putting the umpire under the uprights, either. He's the voice and the presence after the kick in the pile and I think it's important he be in there.

--BJ is too shallow at 17 yards.

--Giving a "catch" signal. Completely unnecessary.

--It's a really nice thought that the wings will be at the goal line before the runner, but that's only going to happen with goal line mechanics (when the back judge can't get to the goal line). Otherwise, the proper mechanics dictate that the wing trail the play at a safe distance and watch the blocking action and the sideline and then communicate with the back judge, who will have the goal line (and will signal).

-- I'm not sure when I've held the ball up as the R at the end of the period. I have the umpire do that since I'm 15 yards deep. What's the big deal with this, anyway?

--Telling the R's how to conduct a coin toss is odd, IMO.

I applaud the state's efforts in consistency. Really, I do. And their kickoff mechanics sound great to me, putting the R/H/L deeper than the deepest receiver (it what I was hoping the NFHS would move towards and instead they went the other way and took another official out of deep coverage to cover an illegal block that rarely, rarely happens).

Ditto. I wonder how many people here simply get an answer key and don't take the time to take the tests. And we help feed that by going over the Part I and Part II tests at association meetings, too. You really wouldn't ever have to take a test yourself, I wouldn't think.

Our state has foiled that by giving each official a discrete test. The online-only T/F test has 50 questions which are pulled from a pool of 250 NFHS-supplied questions at the time we log in. Thus, an answer key is useless.

The whole purpose of our pre-season test is to get officials "into the book" by allowing enough time to look up the answers. We have 2 hours to answer the 50 questions.

I honestly hope you do not think my comments had anything to do with Illinois. Some of us travel and go to other parts of the country. Maybe you need to leave Texas sometimes, after all you guys do think you are in your own country. I used to spend several summers and several holiday seasons in Texas as my dad lived there for years.

Having spent a lot of time in Texas and even went to school there for a brief time as well, I really would not go there about politicians or anything else for that matter. I remember a former governor involved in the SMU Death Penalty scandal giving money to players as a normal and approved university practice. And that same school had a former coach that went on to coach another Texas school and tried to make a murdered player sound like a drug dealer at Baylor to save his behind.

Peace

FTR, and your point is what? At least Illinois has a great city. You have places called "Mistake by the lake." And considering all the people I know that have been there, they agree.

Peace

Enough, already. All of you. The mechanics a state works in HS football have nothing to do with being in and living in the state itself.

Yes and I was having fun. I will always talk about Ohio, after all I was born just north of there. And the fact that they have mechanics that are absolutely silly is even one more reason not to be there. ;)

Peace

Keep this up and MTD will post another tOSU video. :D

Carrying a rule book to the field wouldn't bother me, but putting the onus on the officials to prove a ruling is completely ridiculous. It must be really bad in OH for the guy in charge to make this the way things are done.

Lighten up Francis!!! (RICH) most of us know this is good natured banter and not true ripping on anyone's home state!

I mean if you are from Michigan originally.......

You stole my thunder. :)

I'm not Rich but I'll say this, one of our goals as moderators and admins is to reduce the amount of off topic posts in threads. There's no need for threads to go off into the weeds like they are wont to do on this forum.

You realize Michigan just beat them without them cheating. Bring that on!!!

And bringing a rulebook out is stupid on so many levels. There is a reason that no major sport advocates this practice (heck I cannot think of any sport for that matter but I do not work sports like Lacrosse and Rugby) and why any state would even ask anyone to do that is absurd. And the fact that any onus would be on anyone is even sillier if that is going to be the requirement. All you are doing is opening up for constant debate. It is not always quick to look up something in the rulebook or casebook and a reference often is found in some obscure place. Since they want to be silly, they should require "Rules by Topic" book. At least the rules and the case plays are in the same place. :)

Peace

I can only imagine the havoc in Ohio junior high games, where you have coaches that barely know half the rules and learned the other two thirds on TV (math failed on purpose)... combined occasionally with newbie linesmen or referees just learning the craft. This could get ugly AND protracted.

That's a good implementation, IMO. Please post or PM which state is doing that, and I'll pass it along.

This topic has been discussed previously

http://forum.officiating.com/footbal...-opinions.html

It's unlikely that the JH coaches that barely know half the rules would know that they can request a timeout for the purpose of a rules clarification.

All it takes is one... and then all their buddies will know it.

About time. I've been 8itching about this for years! :mad:

In our state only the head coach is required to take the NFHS but is not required to pass it!

I think they should be required to pass it as well as the assistants. THEN, they are issued a license to discuss a rule. If they don't have a card, then they can't waste our time talking rules they no nothing about.

"That pass was uncatchable!"