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bigjohn Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:56am
take a knee?
 
Tom Coughlin has harsh words for Greg Schiano after Giants beat Buccaneers | Shutdown Corner - Yahoo! Sports

asdf Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:10pm
Another clown with the "play til you hear the whistle" mindset

MD Longhorn Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:41pm
Sounds more like a "play while the ball is live" mindset to me.

asdf Mon Sep 17, 2012 01:00pm
which is fine, provided both teams are "playing"

Refsmitty Mon Sep 17, 2012 01:14pm
Bucs
 
I saw nothing wrong with the play. Shame on the Giants to think the other team is just going to give up when they still have an outside chance to make something happen - legally!

maven Mon Sep 17, 2012 01:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refsmitty (Post 854818)
I saw nothing wrong with the play. Shame on the Giants to think the other team is just going to give up when they still have an outside chance to make something happen - legally!
NFL does not have as many "unwritten rules" as MLB, but this is one of them. Perhaps you saw nothing wrong with the play because you're applying only the written rules.

Players police the unwritten rules, and so I encourage the O-linemen and QB for the Bucs to protect themselves if they have a victory formation this season.

JugglingReferee Mon Sep 17, 2012 01:51pm
With the money that these athletes can earn, you play to win the game.

APG Mon Sep 17, 2012 02:05pm
There's a reason that a fight almost broke out after what Tampa did. It went against the accepted practice in the NFL...you watch any number of games in the NFL and you won't see another team do this.

Completely legal rules wise, but against the unwritten rules.

waltjp Mon Sep 17, 2012 02:38pm
Why should a team be expected to quit playing if there's still time left on the clock?

asdf Mon Sep 17, 2012 03:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltjp (Post 854855)
Why should a team be expected to quit playing if there's still time left on the clock?
Because it's been an accepted practice for years.

One team tells the other team they are taking a knee and they honor the notification.......

Show me an example of it happening right before halftime. (you can't)

MD Longhorn Mon Sep 17, 2012 03:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf (Post 854863)
Because it's been an accepted practice for years.

One team tells the other team they are taking a knee and they honor the notification.......

Show me an example of it happening right before halftime. (you can't)
No, but you have the opposite - Randall Cunningham faking taking a knee and throwing a TD right before halftime.

maven Mon Sep 17, 2012 03:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltjp (Post 854855)
Why should a team be expected to quit playing if there's still time left on the clock?
Why should a guy who hits a home run start running immediately rather than wait till the ball's out of sight and admire his achievement?

That's how they play the game. It's different from college. None of us has to like it.

JugglingReferee Mon Sep 17, 2012 03:21pm
Chargers/KC last year. SD trying to run out the lock and they fumble the snap.

asdf Mon Sep 17, 2012 04:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 854865)
No, but you have the opposite - Randall Cunningham faking taking a knee and throwing a TD right before halftime.
Are you talking about the time he took two knees then threw a long pass while up 30-20?

Just as classy.....

jchamp Mon Sep 17, 2012 04:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf (Post 854887)
Are you talking about the time he took two knees then threw a long pass while up 30-20?

Just as classy.....
If he was only up 10 points at the half, then he's smart to try to pad his lead. It doesn't take long for those ten points to evaporate, especially if you're kicking to start the 3rd.

Victory formation started as a way for the offense to eliminate as much as possible the risk of losing due to a fumble when they don't need the yardage to win the game. "Taking a knee" at halftime is completely discretionary and should NEVER be assumed. In the NFL, "taking a knee" should be afforded the same opportunities as any other play.

I can buy protecting kids in HS, but when we're talking about millionaires with incredible athletic prowess, don't just let them play, MAKE them play.

asdf Mon Sep 17, 2012 05:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchamp (Post 854898)
If he was only up 10 points at the half, then he's smart to try to pad his lead. It doesn't take long for those ten points to evaporate, especially if you're kicking to start the 3rd.

Victory formation started as a way for the offense to eliminate as much as possible the risk of losing due to a fumble when they don't need the yardage to win the game. "Taking a knee" at halftime is completely discretionary and should NEVER be assumed. In the NFL, "taking a knee" should be afforded the same opportunities as any other play.

I can buy protecting kids in HS, but when we're talking about millionaires with incredible athletic prowess, don't just let them play, MAKE them play.
This happened at the end of the game.

Bush league for taking two knees then trying to throw a TD pass up 10 points with 30 seconds to go. (Even worse was the fact that DPI was called in the EZ and the Eagles scored the TD on the next play)

A common theme seems to be emerging here. Millionaires.....

There's a reason why they are millionaires. There's a reason why the teams in the league have accepted the practice of taking the knee with no resistance.

You don't like them being millionaires, that's your hang up.

The best line I heard out of all this was that "when guys bring stuff from the college game to the pro game, the usually end up back in the college game"

How true....

jchamp Mon Sep 17, 2012 05:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf (Post 854907)
This happened at the end of the game.
I wasn't aware of the reference. The described case is pretty unsporting--an attempt to run up the numbers.
Quote:
A common theme seems to be emerging here. Millionaires.....

There's a reason why they are millionaires. There's a reason why the teams in the league have accepted the practice of taking the knee with no resistance.

You don't like them being millionaires, that's your hang up.
I have no problem with them being millionaires. I've contributed a small share to making them millionaires and did so gladly in order to appreciate the entertainment they provide.
But don't forget the second part of that statement--incredible athletes. In the NFL, they are, indeed, professional entertainers. I pay my money to see professional entertainers. In other words, "Dance, monkey! Dance!"
When I go to a movie, I expect the theater to run the film until the credits end, and not stop it just before the climax.
When I go to a concert, I expect that the musician will play his complete set, and not suddenly stop 30 seconds into his closing song.
When I go to a PROFESSIONAL* football game, I expect players to play their hearts out until there is no further doubt as to the outcome. Anything less is robbing the fans of the entertainment which they have already paid to see.

*College is a mixed case--some places it's almost professional whereas others it's definitely amateur. High school: Let's just have fun, boys!

asdf Tue Sep 18, 2012 05:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchamp (Post 854913)
I wasn't aware of the reference. The described case is pretty unsporting--an attempt to run up the numbers.


I have no problem with them being millionaires. I've contributed a small share to making them millionaires and did so gladly in order to appreciate the entertainment they provide.
But don't forget the second part of that statement--incredible athletes. In the NFL, they are, indeed, professional entertainers. I pay my money to see professional entertainers. In other words, "Dance, monkey! Dance!"
When I go to a movie, I expect the theater to run the film until the credits end, and not stop it just before the climax.
When I go to a concert, I expect that the musician will play his complete set, and not suddenly stop 30 seconds into his closing song.
When I go to a PROFESSIONAL* football game, I expect players to play their hearts out until there is no further doubt as to the outcome. Anything less is robbing the fans of the entertainment which they have already paid to see.

*College is a mixed case--some places it's almost professional whereas others it's definitely amateur. High school: Let's just have fun, boys!
Then you shold be howling just as loud when a team, either ahead, behind or losing, takes a knee just before the half.

BigBaldGuy Tue Sep 18, 2012 06:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf (Post 854887)
Are you talking about the time he took two knees then threw a long pass while up 30-20?

Just as classy.....
I would find a holding penalty on this play...:)

waltjp Tue Sep 18, 2012 06:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf (Post 854954)
Then you shold be howling just as loud when a team, either ahead, behind or losing, takes a knee just before the half.
Why? You're suggestion is illogical. Nobody was howling at teams taking a knee. The noise is coming from those who are offended that a team saw time remaining on the clock and didn't concede the game.

asdf Tue Sep 18, 2012 08:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltjp (Post 854960)
Why? You're suggestion is illogical. Nobody was howling at teams taking a knee.
Jchamp is....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jchamp (Post 854913)
When I go to a PROFESSIONAL* football game, I expect players to play their hearts out until there is no further doubt as to the outcome. Anything less is robbing the fans of the entertainment which they have already paid to see.


Quote:
Originally Posted by waltjp (Post 854960)
The noise is coming from those who are offended that a team saw time remaining on the clock and didn't concede the game.
The noise is because, the team ahead, followed long accepted protocol and informed the opponent that they were taking a knee. The team behind decided without warning, that they were ignoring said accepted protocol and put their opponent in jeopardy of injury.

MD Longhorn Tue Sep 18, 2012 09:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf (Post 854974)
Jchamp is....
No, I don't think he is. He's not upset at the offense taking a knee... he's against the defense giving up.

Quote:
The team behind decided without warning, that they were ignoring said accepted protocol and put their opponent in jeopardy of injury.
Without warning? Did you watch the game? Did you see the way the defense lined up? I was watching, and I knew something was up.

asdf Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 854985)
No, I don't think he is. He's not upset at the offense taking a knee... he's against the defense giving up.

Without warning? Did you watch the game? Did you see the way the defense lined up? I was watching, and I knew something was up.
My father-in-law was on the sidelines. It was communicated to the officials and the Bucs that the knee was coming.

There was more than one Buc player that apologized to Manning.

jchamp Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 854985)
No, I don't think he is. He's not upset at the offense taking a knee... he's against the defense giving up.
That's correct. "Taking a knee" is an acceptable strategic option that is always available to the offense.

"Giving up" is the concession of defeat, and is never an option for any NFL player or fan, unless there is no chance of victory (e.g., down 2+ scores; less than 30 seconds).

We didn't give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor! :)

MD Longhorn Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf (Post 854986)
My father-in-law was on the sidelines. It was communicated to the officials and the Bucs that the knee was coming.
Congrats to your father in law. Relevance?

It was obvious to anyone watching that TB's defense was not just loitering near the line like they often do. They were lined up as if to charge.

asdf Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchamp (Post 854994)
That's correct. "Taking a knee" is an acceptable strategic option that is always available to the offense.

"Giving up" is the concession of defeat, and is never an option for any NFL player or fan, unless there is no chance of victory (e.g., down 2+ scores; less than 30 seconds).

We didn't give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor! :)
Maybe from a fan's (your?) point of view. (until your QB blows out an ACL on the last play ;))

The indisputable fact reamains that regardless if you or I like or don't like it, this went against protocol.

It's also not going to change. The reason ???.....

There's a far greater risk of injury to a star play than the chance that the offense will blow the snap.

waltjp Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:49am
On average, each teams has about 60-70 snaps per game. Why would you be upset that a defense plays each one of them like they mean something?

We're not talking about a 14 point deficit with 30 seconds remaining. This was a 7 point game. As long as there's time on the clock the Bucs still had a chance.

How about this, Giants, block like you mean it. Play like the game hasn't ended yet and protect your quarterback. And if you can't do that then get your QB out of there and put in the backup.

And I don't want to hear the crap about how someone might get hurt on the final play. There are inherent risks to the game. If you don't want to assume those risks then take up tennis.

asdf Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 854999)
Congrats to your father in law. Relevance?

It was obvious to anyone watching that TB's defense was not just loitering near the line like they often do. They were lined up as if to charge.
Relevance ?? You asked if I saw the game. I gave you someone who was on the sidelines that heard what is repeated around the league in this situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 854999)
They were lined up as if to charge.
After they were told the knee was coming....that's what the problem is...

asdf Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltjp (Post 855005)
On average, each teams has about 60-70 snaps per game. Why would you be upset that a defense plays each one of them like they mean something?

We're not talking about a 14 point deficit with 30 seconds remaining. This was a 7 point game. As long as there's time on the clock the Bucs still had a chance.

How about this, Giants, block like you mean it. Play like the game hasn't ended yet and protect your quarterback. And if you can't do that then get your QB out of there and put in the backup.

And I don't want to hear the crap about how someone might get hurt on the final play. There are inherent risks to the game. If you don't want to assume those risks then take up tennis.
That's a fanboy response. You don't have millions invested. You don't have your livehood at stake like the players do. (go spend some time with a former OL, DL, or LB and watch them struggle just to sit down. They'll tell you what getting hurt on a meaningless down is all about)

Show me one situation around the league where a team took a knee just before halftime and the opponent blew it up....

You can't. Because that's not how the game's played.

You don't like it, come up with the skills to get signed to play in this arena and change the game so the fans won't be 'cheated" out of their "entertainment value".

Until then........feel free to tell me how it is fromn a fan's point of view....

I'll continue to give you the player's side....

maven Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltjp (Post 855005)
How about this, Giants, block like you mean it. Play like the game hasn't ended yet and protect your quarterback. And if you can't do that then get your QB out of there and put in the backup.
I think they got that memo this week.

MD Longhorn Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf (Post 855006)
Relevance ?? You asked if I saw the game. I gave you someone who was on the sidelines that heard what is repeated around the league in this situation.



After they were told the knee was coming....that's what the problem is...
Sigh ...

Let's not be politicians... let's actually hear the words the other person is saying and respond to those.

You said that the team behind decided without warning...
I disagreed with the "without warning" part and asked if you'd seen the play in question. If you had, I don't think you would describe Tampa's alignment as "without warning" - like I said, watching from home on TV it was obvious to me that something was coming. They were not passive at all.
The fact that your father in law heard Ferris's cousin's hairdresser say that they were taking a knee is completely irrelevant to the fact that Tampa Bay was obviously not taking the play off. I'm not disputing that NYG said they were taking a knee. No one is. So great, you have proof from your father in law that something happened that no one is disagreeing with.

I fail to understand why you (or anyone) is upset that a team down only 1 score played every down to win. Further, I wonder how this discussion would be going if Eli actually dropped the ball when he was surprised by Tampa's defensive rush.

waltjp Wed Sep 19, 2012 07:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf (Post 855010)
Show me one situation around the league where a team took a knee just before halftime and the opponent blew it up....

You can't. Because that's not how the game's played.
This is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

MD Longhorn Wed Sep 19, 2012 08:30am
It is not surprising to me, but may be to others, to note the number of ex-players whose opinions are that TB did nothing wrong and NY needs to shut up. Play until the end of the game. Brian Dawkins even made my point this morning - it was obvious to everyone that TB was playing defense on that play, shame on the NYG line for not blocking.

APG Wed Sep 19, 2012 02:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 855198)
It is not surprising to me, but may be to others, to note the number of ex-players whose opinions are that TB did nothing wrong and NY needs to shut up. Play until the end of the game. Brian Dawkins even made my point this morning - it was obvious to everyone that TB was playing defense on that play, shame on the NYG line for not blocking.
See, I've heard quite the opposite from ex-players and coaches.

MD Longhorn Wed Sep 19, 2012 03:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 855257)
See, I've heard quite the opposite from ex-players and coaches.
Which ones, and on what programs?

Those I've heard to this point - Cris Carter, Brian Dawkins, Mike Golic, Mike Ditka, Ron Jaworski, Mark Schlereth, Terry Bradshaw (I think that counts negative points for me though), James Brown.

I've heard one arguing the other side - Jimmy Johnson.

bcl1127 Wed Sep 19, 2012 03:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf (Post 855006)
After they were told the knee was coming....that's what the problem is...
Then the Giants are not being smart, don't tell the other team what is coming. Play the knee play like any other play, because that is what it is, a play. The fake spike play is an example, everyone thinks a spike is coming, so they layoff and boom, TD because you were sleeping. Play every play in every game the same way.

Adam Wed Sep 19, 2012 04:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcl1127 (Post 855259)
Then the Giants are not being smart, don't tell the other team what is coming. Play the knee play like any other play, because that is what it is, a play. The fake spike play is an example, everyone thinks a spike is coming, so they layoff and boom, TD because you were sleeping. Play every play in every game the same way.
Not quite the same, as the spike is generally done by the team trailing and trying to score. Assuming they're just killing the clock is a mistake (I recall Peyton Manning throwing a TD pass on such a play).

This play is done with the idea that the game is conceded. I can understand, however, how the defense could take a bit of exception to the offense trying to concede for them.

Adam Wed Sep 19, 2012 04:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 855258)
Which ones, and on what programs?

Those I've heard to this point - Cris Carter, Brian Dawkins, Mike Golic, Mike Ditka, Ron Jaworski, Mark Schlereth, Terry Bradshaw (I think that counts negative points for me though), James Brown.

I've heard one arguing the other side - Jimmy Johnson.
I heard the "other side," but it was from Strahan on ESPN. That's the only former player I heard actually comment on it, though.

APG Wed Sep 19, 2012 05:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 855258)
Which ones, and on what programs?

Those I've heard to this point - Cris Carter, Brian Dawkins, Mike Golic, Mike Ditka, Ron Jaworski, Mark Schlereth, Terry Bradshaw (I think that counts negative points for me though), James Brown.

I've heard one arguing the other side - Jimmy Johnson.
Sorry, didn't take a list but I remember hearing those against from the NFL Network and NBC's Sunday Night pre game show.

And one can't compare the fake spike to taking a knee at the end of the game. Taking a knee involves the unwritten rule and accepted practice that involves ending the game. There's is no practice that dictates that the defense take it easy and that the offense must spike the ball.

JasonTX Wed Sep 19, 2012 08:08pm
Why even take a knee ? We need a rule created where you don't even have to snap the ball if we are to make the defense not play. I'll use a high school baseball rule for example. If you want to walk the batter you don't even have to pitch to him. You just put him on base. Let's just allow the offense to declare the game over when they are able to just run the clock out. Don't even snap it, just declare it over. Nothing can happen on the snap right? Wrong.

I had a game a few years ago with the defense needing to score to win. The offense, for whatever reason, told me they were taking a knee. Ok? Why are you telling me? I don't need to know what play they are calling. They take the snap and it is muffed and recovered by the defense with just enough to attempt a play. They didn't score, but at least they played til the final horn without giving up. It was one of the most exciting finishes I have seen because it just goes to show that the game isn't over until the clock hits zero.


Jerry Jones commented that they need a rule to get rid of the kneel down. Make em run a play.

MD Longhorn Thu Sep 20, 2012 08:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTX (Post 855278)
I had a game a few years ago with the defense needing to score to win. The offense, for whatever reason, told me they were taking a knee. Ok? Why are you telling me? I don't need to know what play they are calling. They take the snap and it is muffed and recovered by the defense with just enough to attempt a play. They didn't score, but at least they played til the final horn without giving up. It was one of the most exciting finishes I have seen because it just goes to show that the game isn't over until the clock hits zero.
My example is similar, but the opposite. My first year, I'm working with a very experienced guy. Offense announced that they are taking a knee. My whitehat tells the defense - "They're taking a knee. Relax, I don't want to see any hitting here." Sure enough, snap is muffed, hits the QB's foot and goes right about to the tackle. Had the defense been ready, they would have had a very good chance at getting it, as the linemen were clueless. RB ended up recovering. I felt like we took that game away from the defense there.

Rich Thu Sep 20, 2012 08:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 855296)
My example is similar, but the opposite. My first year, I'm working with a very experienced guy. Offense announced that they are taking a knee. My whitehat tells the defense - "They're taking a knee. Relax, I don't want to see any hitting here." Sure enough, snap is muffed, hits the QB's foot and goes right about to the tackle. Had the defense been ready, they would have had a very good chance at getting it, as the linemen were clueless. RB ended up recovering. I felt like we took that game away from the defense there.
And if you go all the way back to my first post -- I only bring the whistle up to my mouth and hit it once I'm certain that the QB has cleanly taken the snap.

In 20+ years of doing this, I've never seen a muffed snap on a kneel down play -- I still wait to make sure the ball is firmly in the QB's hands.

I'm sure muffed snaps happen, but the lack of frequency to me suggests that it makes more sense for the defense to not risk injury (for either team) in this situation.

JRutledge Thu Sep 20, 2012 08:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTX (Post 855278)
Jerry Jones commented that they need a rule to get rid of the kneel down. Make em run a play.
How are you going to make them run a play? Teams will still do something to not lose the ball and it will either be more violent or with the same result. I think people that do no officiate should not speak on what should be done on any rule.

Peace

MD Longhorn Thu Sep 20, 2012 09:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 855301)
How are you going to make them run a play? Teams will still do something to not lose the ball and it will either be more violent or with the same result. I think people that do no officiate should not speak on what should be done on any rule.

Peace
I like Jason's idea better than Jerry's. Jerry's was one of his less-fine thoughts.

OTOH, Jerry can speak on any rule he chooses - he's on the Rules Committee.

JRutledge Thu Sep 20, 2012 09:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 855306)
I like Jason's idea better than Jerry's. Jerry's was one of his less-fine thoughts.

OTOH, Jerry can speak on any rule he chooses - he's on the Rules Committee.
He can, but that does not make it less stupid.

Peace

SE Minnestoa Re Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:05am
I had a high school game many years ago where the offensive team told everyone they were taking a knee. The losing team just stood there except for one young man. He blew right through and just blasted the QB after his knee was down. We then proceeded to have to break up the brawl that ensued. I had a line judge punched by the offending player when he was trying to get him off the field.

silverpie Fri Sep 21, 2012 09:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 855301)
How are you going to make them run a play? Teams will still do something to not lose the ball and it will either be more violent or with the same result. I think people that do no officiate should not speak on what should be done on any rule.

Peace
Perhaps the Arena Football rule: after the one-minute warning (translate that to two, obviously) in the 4th quarter, if the offense has the lead and doesn't gain yardage on a play, the clock stops.

Adam Fri Sep 21, 2012 09:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverpie (Post 855412)
Perhaps the Arena Football rule: after the one-minute warning (translate that to two, obviously) in the 4th quarter, if the offense has the lead and doesn't gain yardage on a play, the clock stops.
That certainly explains how it could be done, but if we want to watch arena football, we could watch arena football.

Dakota Fri Sep 21, 2012 01:26pm
I don't officiate football, so this is from a fan's perspective (not a fan of either of these 2 teams, just in general a fan...).

A question was posed by Mike Golic, and I think it is a fair question. I am paraphrasing the situation/question.

If the offense gets to go into "victory" formation, and the defense is supposed to honor that to avoid injury, etc., why can't the defense do the same thing? For example, 5 seconds remain, defense is ahead by 7, offense has 4th and 20 from their own 25. The chances of any "hail Mary" pass play working is exceedingly slim. Why can't the defense go into its "victory" formation, inform the offense they are not going to rush the passer, and now the offense is obligated by "unwritten rule" to just quit?

Golic further made the point that the injury argument is hollow, since it was obvious when the defense lined up they are coming. If the offense chose to ignore that, and not line up to protect themselves and their QB, any injury was their own fault.

maven Fri Sep 21, 2012 01:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota (Post 855456)
Why can't the defense go into its "victory" formation, inform the offense they are not going to rush the passer, and now the offense is obligated by "unwritten rule" to just quit?
Golic needs to stick to radio and not try to use his brain so much. That's the dumbest analogy I've heard in quite a while. It never occurred to this football genius that the offense and defense are different because the offense has possession of the ball?

rockyroad Fri Sep 21, 2012 03:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by maven (Post 855458)
Golic needs to stick to radio and not try to use his brain so much. That's the dumbest analogy I've heard in quite a while. It never occurred to this football genius that the offense and defense are different because the offense has possession of the ball?
Actually that was Golic's major point...just because they have possession of the ball does not mean they get to dictate to the defense - by dint of "unwrtieen rule" - that the game is over. If so, then there should be a related "unwritten rule" that allows the defense to dictate to the offense "Hey, this game is in the bag so we are going to just wrap it up now - don't try to run a play or anything."

MD Longhorn Fri Sep 21, 2012 03:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by maven (Post 855458)
Golic needs to stick to radio and not try to use his brain so much. That's the dumbest analogy I've heard in quite a while. It never occurred to this football genius that the offense and defense are different because the offense has possession of the ball?
You missed his point.

maven Sat Sep 22, 2012 05:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 855471)
Actually that was Golic's major point...just because they have possession of the ball does not mean they get to dictate to the defense - by dint of "unwrtieen rule" - that the game is over.
First, it's unwritten rule that the offense but not the defense gets to do this. Golic doesn't get to invent his own unwritten rules, even if he doesn't like the ones that exist.

Unwritten rules exist at the pleasure of the players: if enough players abandon this one, it will go away. :shrug:

And yes, the offense gets to decide whether to take a knee, because they control the ball and the clock. The defense can stop the clock only with a time out. That's not dictating anything to the defense, it's clock management. The defense can't do the same.

rockyroad Sat Sep 22, 2012 06:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by maven (Post 855526)
First, it's unwritten rule that the offense but not the defense gets to do this. Golic doesn't get to invent his own unwritten rules, even if he doesn't like the ones that exist.

Unwritten rules exist at the pleasure of the players: if enough players abandon this one, it will go away. :shrug:

And yes, the offense gets to decide whether to take a knee, because they control the ball and the clock. The defense can stop the clock only with a time out. That's not dictating anything to the defense, it's clock management. The defense can't do the same.
Gosh, thanks so much for that explanation. You really cleared things up for Golic.

Oh wait...maybe you should send that explanation to him directly...:rolleyes:


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