Illegal Touching and OPI

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by mikesears

Check that again. Once the ball was touched behind the line of scrimmage by A53, PI restrictions end for all eligible A players. A85 is not guilty of OPI, is he?

[/B]

REPLY: No, he's not! But let's suppose that instead of A85, it was A58, an ineligible who is legally downfield. Then what's the story? Let's discuss what exactly are the restrictions governing A58 contact with an opponent?

[STEVED21]

Originally posted by Bob M.

REPLY: No, he's not! But let's suppose that instead of A85, it was A58, an ineligible who is legally downfield. Then what's the story? Let's discuss what exactly are the restrictions governing A58 contact with an opponent? [/B]

The contact restriction beyond the LOS is the same foe ALL A players A58 or A85. No player whether eligible or ineligible can interfere with B's attempt to catch a pass beyond the LOS.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: But recall in the posted play, the ball was touched by an ineligible (A53) behind the LOS. Don't you agree that this changes the situation? (See NF 7-5-9b)

[STEVED21]

Originally posted by Bob M.
REPLY: But recall in the posted play, the ball was touched by an ineligible (A53) behind the LOS. Don't you agree that this changes the situation? (See NF 7-5-9b)

You asked if A58 were ineligible down field. He still has the same restrictions until the ball is touched in accordance with rule 7.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by STEVED21

You asked if A58 were ineligible down field. He still has the same restrictions until the ball is touched in accordance with rule 7.

REPLY: I think we're talking past each other. Let's go back to the original play. An ineligible (A58) muffs a forward pass behind the line -- an illegal touch. Now the pass rebounds beyond the line where an eligible (A85) pushes a B defender to keep him from making an interception. Leave the first part of the play the same (i.e. the illegal touch). All I'm asking is what happens if the A push is by A56 (an ineligible) instead of A85. Are there different restrictions for him than there are for eligible A85? Remember that it is certainly possible for A56 to be downfield legally, assuming that he released after the ball is in flight.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by STEVED21

The contact restriction beyond the LOS is the same foe ALL A players A58 or A85. No player whether eligible or ineligible can interfere with B's attempt to catch a pass beyond the LOS. [/B]

Lets clarify that I am speaking about NFHS rules.

PI restrictions are lifted for all ELIGIBLE A receivers when anyone touches the pass (including another A player). See 7-5-9b. The PI restrictions still apply to ineligible players until B touches a pass (or last pass).

[STEVED21]

Mike,

You are correct. Restrictions on ineligible A do not end until the pass is touched by B.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by STEVED21
Mike,

You are correct. Restrictions on ineligible A do not end until the pass is touched by B.

REPLY: However, NF 7-5-9b says that pass interference restrictions end for..."Eligible A players when A touches the pass or last pass if more than one. Ineligible A players may not touch the pass, but can use hands or arms in a legal block to ward off an opponent."

What about that second sentence? Doesn't it imply that restrictions for eligible A players are indeed different than for ineligible A players in this play? Doesn't it say that interference restrictions on ineligible A players are at least "partially" ended when A touches the pass? Comments...

[mikesears]

Originally posted by Bob M.

REPLY: However, NF 7-5-9b says that pass interference restrictions end for..."Eligible A players when A touches the pass or last pass if more than one. Ineligible A players may not touch the pass, but can use hands or arms in a legal block to ward off an opponent."

What about that second sentence? Doesn't it imply that restrictions for eligible A players are indeed different than for ineligible A players in this play? Doesn't it say that interference restrictions on ineligible A players are at least "partially" ended when A touches the pass? Comments...

Is this another contraction in the rulebook? It seems (to me at least) that the rulesmakers make it clear that PI restrictions don't end for ineligible B A players until B touches the (last) pass. Then we run into the comment with no case book support that I can find.

If this comment means that A can block behind the neutral zone to keep B from intercepting the pass, there is no need for this comment because the rules already allow this.

I wonder if they actually mean that ineligible A players can block beyond the neutral zone when A touches the pass but that ineligible A players cannot catch the pass as this would be OPI?



[Edited by mikesears on Jul 9th, 2003 at 06:59 AM]

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by mikesears
It seems (to me at least) that the rulesmakers make it clear that PI restrictions don't end for ineligible B players until B touches the (last) pass.

Huh?

What are "ineligible B players?"

[ABoselli]

I wonder if they actually mean that ineligible A players can block beyond the neutral zone when A touches the pass but that ineligible A players cannot catch the pass as this would be OPI?

That's exactly what they mean. There wouldn't be any PI restrictions to speak about if we weren't beyond the NZ, since that's the only place they can take place. So big ole lumbering A79 sees the ball tipped in the air by A32, then sees B21 getting ready to snag the pick, so he blocks him from the front above the waist, away from the ball, and it falls harmlessly incomplete. The A coach breathes a sigh of relief. All legal. If lumbering A79 were to touch the pass in an attempt to catch it or tip it away from B21, that's OPI.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: That's what I was getting at. Ineligible A can block beyond the NZ once A touches the pass. However, he cannot touch the pass. Now let's take it further: He must use a legal blocking technique (defined in NF 2-3-2). So he cannot use his hands to momentarily push or pull an opponent (as allowed by NF 2-3-4) since he cannot legally touch the pass. An eligible A could in this case.

And to get back to one of the questions Mike asked in his original post: “Is it safe to say you can't have both illegal touching and OPI during the same down?” – No, it’s not safe to say that. Consider: an ineligible illegally touches a pass behind the NZ and the ball rebounds beyond the NZ. Then an ineligible muffs the pass beyond the NZ prior to any touching by B. This is a multiple foul: illegal touching and OPI.