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-   -   overlapped penalty: 25-yd penalty possible? (https://forum.officiating.com/football/91232-overlapped-penalty-25-yd-penalty-possible.html)

great Thu May 17, 2012 09:55pm

overlapped penalty: 25-yd penalty possible?
 
In NCAA rule.

A team receiver catches the ball thrown, then make touchdown.
Then he spikes his ball too excited, but the HL throw yellow flag immediately(Personal Foul).

Afterwards, turned out there's holding penalty already.

So, TD canceled, 10yd penalty is applied A team.
But more, 15yd penalty also applied, total 25yd penalty.

Is it right ruling?

(In my opinion, only 10yd penalty by holding is acceptable,)


Thank You.

JRutledge Thu May 17, 2012 10:35pm

A live ball act or penalty has nothing to do with a dead ball act. You apply them both because these are not penalized in the same way. Both have to be applied in this case even if it does not make sense to you or not. The proper thing is to enforce the holding penalty if accepted and then the dead ball penalty if also accepted (or half the distance if need be).

Peace

BktBallRef Fri May 18, 2012 05:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by great (Post 842317)
Then he spikes his ball too excited, but the HL throw yellow flag immediately(Personal Foul).

A personal foul would be for illegal contact.

What you describe is unsportsmanlike conduct.

Quote:

(In my opinion, only 10yd penalty by holding is acceptable,)
Why?

Texas Aggie Fri May 18, 2012 06:10pm

The spiking is a USC foul, not personal. On this play, you could ask the offended coach if he wants to decline the holding penalty and back them up only 15, something he might do if 2nd or 3rd down because the dead ball foul is enforced from the succeeding spot. If they want both, you enforce both and repeat the down. The argument of "he wouldn't have spiked it had he known the play was coming back" doesn't hold water, just in case the coach of the offending team wants to know!

Robert Goodman Sat May 19, 2012 03:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 842454)
A personal foul would be for illegal contact.

What you describe is unsportsmanlike conduct.

Unless he spiked the ball onto someone's foot.

JRutledge Sat May 19, 2012 07:10pm

Not exactly true. If someone throws something at someone, that still could be an unsporting act. And spiking the ball and hitting someone's foot does not necessarily matter if you hit someone in the process. The act of spiking is unsporting in itself. At least that is the suggestion in 9-2-1.

Peace

McMac Sun May 20, 2012 02:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 842471)
The spiking is a USC foul, not personal. On this play, you could ask the offended coach if he wants to decline the holding penalty and back them up only 15, something he might do if 2nd or 3rd down because the dead ball foul is enforced from the succeeding spot. If they want both, you enforce both and repeat the down. The argument of "he wouldn't have spiked it had he known the play was coming back" doesn't hold water, just in case the coach of the offending team wants to know!

The defense would not decline the holding as it was a TD. If the defense declines the hold, then the TD stands and the 15 is either enforced on the try or succeeding kick-off. There is only one logical solution to this play for any coach and that is to take BOTH penalties.

Texas Aggie Mon May 21, 2012 02:05pm

You're right. I guess I put the dead ball foul somewhere else in the timeline.


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