I've got a question. If two players signal for a fair catch, are both player protected?

Play.

4 & 5 at K-20. R1 and R2 are at the hash marks to receive the kick. K1 punts the ball between R1 and R2. While the ball is still in flight, both R1 and R2 signal for a fair catch. At the last moment, R2 stears clear and is blocked by K2. R1 completes the fair catch.

Ruling?

Legal, I think. The only player offered protection is the player who catches the ball, IMHO anyway :)

In both the FEDERATION and NCAA codes, <u>any</u> R/B player who gives a valid legal signal is afforded protection. Likewise, each such B player restricted from blocking until the kick ends (FED) or until he touches the kick (NCAA).

Only the player who catches the ball. But remember, both have the blocking restrictions on them before the kick is ended.

Okay, I'm getting two different answers here. I'm looking for a FED ruling. Are both players who signal protected or JUST the player who catches the ball. I'm curious as to what support you can present for the position you take. I'm without a casebook today so I don't know if this is covered there or not.

Thanks!

I'm also without my books today but I believe both are protected. If a player has given a valid FC signal he's expecting that protection. If just for saftey, I believe we need to give it to him

<i>Contacting a receiver who did not give a fair catch signal or contacting a receiver who has given a signal but is contacted where he cannot make a fair catch is not a foul unless the contact is judged to be a personal foul. The receiver is not afforded special protection in such situations. Members of the kicking team have the responsibility of knowing when the ball is dead. If a kicker could not have seen a fair catch signal made by a teammate of the receiver, there is no foul. However, if he could have seen the signal, he does not have license to contact the receiver.</i>

That's from the case book comment on Rule 6.5.3.

I guess it's a foul in this case if they're near each other.

The first question you need to answer is: when does a kick end? It ends when the ball is caught or muffed. Any receiver who makes a FC is protected/limited from making contact with a member of the K team. After the ball is muffed, not caught, the protection ends, for all players, because the "Kick" has ended. It's still a loose ball play, but the "Kick" has ended.

Oz, Sorry my good buddy but thats wrong. The muff does not end the kick. The kick ends when a player gains possession or when then ball becomes dead by rule.

I agree with James's previous post that a kick does not end until there is possession.

This year, NCAA rules also provide for R to have an unimpeded opportunity to catch a muffed ball on a scrimmage kick. So, it is still a kick until R muffs an attempted catch and then catches the ball, thus securing possession or, R muffs the catch and K or another R player secures possession to end the kick.

Unless I'm mistaken, that need for the kickers to allow B to complete the catch after a muff only applies to a situation where B has signalled for a fair catch. No signal...no need for A to "wait" for B's catch. At least, that's what I read:

<b>NCAA 6-5-1a:</b> <i>”When a Team B player makes a fair catch, the ball becomes dead where caught and belongs to Team B at that spot (Exception: When a valid fair catch signal is made, the unimpeded opportunity to catch a free or scrimmage kick is extended to a player who muffs the kick and still has an opportunity to complete the catch. This protection terminates when the kick touches the ground. If the player subsequently catches the kick, the ball is placed where it was first touched) (A.R. 6-5-1-I-IV)."</i>

Bob M.

So right!!

I omitted that R must signal for a fair catch to continue protection as he tries to catch his muffed kick.

Thanks Bob.

Do we have a invalid or illegal fair catch situation on this play?

No. Everybody on R could conceivably give a FC signal while the ball was in the air. That wouldn't be to their advantage, though, as that would kill it as soon as one of R's folks caught it.

Invalid if it is incorrect as to it's form. Illegal if it is given after the kick has ended (a runner shall not give an illegal FC signal).

"That wouldn't be to their advantage, though, as that would kill it as soon as one of R's folks caught it."

A signal by anyone on the R team will kill the ball as soon as it's caught, at least in NFHS. I don't know about NCAA.