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Rich Fri Sep 23, 2011 02:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by parepat (Post 789345)
I don't believe this is a loose ball play. Fumble behind LOS is not loose ball. I would penalize from goal line. If they don't like it, they could decline and give B the safety.
Actually, it's one of the definitions of a loose ball play. See 10-3-1c:

A loose ball play is...

...a backwards pass (including the snap), illegal kick or fumble made by A from in or behind the neutral zone and prior to a change in team possession.

Any run before the fumble is also considered part of the loose ball play.

(Hint: This is why a bag is unnecessary for a fumble behind the line of scrimmage -- the spot of the fumble is never going to be the basic spot.)

mbyron Fri Sep 23, 2011 02:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by parepat (Post 789345)
I don't believe this is a loose ball play. Fumble behind LOS is not loose ball. I would penalize from goal line. If they don't like it, they could decline and give B the safety.
Fumble behind the NZ is not a loose ball play UNLESS there's a change of possession, right? 2-33-1c

In any case, 10-4-7 refers to a loose ball (which we have) not a loose ball play.

parepat Fri Sep 23, 2011 02:08pm
I am an idiot.

Rich Fri Sep 23, 2011 02:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 789354)
Fumble behind the NZ is not a loose ball play UNLESS there's a change of possession, right? 2-33-1c

In any case, 10-4-7 refers to a loose ball (which we have) not a loose ball play.
No. Prior to a change in team possession here simply means that if possession changes (and changes back), then it's a running play. A change of possession isn't a necessary condition for 2-33-1c (or the other citation from rule 10) to be in effect. A fumble behind the neutral zone is a loose ball play and A benefits from fumbling the ball here.

The Redding guide (NFHS) covers this beautifully in a figure in Chapter 11. It's Figure 11-6 on Page 154, for those that have it.

Rich Fri Sep 23, 2011 02:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by parepat (Post 789356)
I am an idiot.
Thanks for the laugh. I love digging into the rules on a Friday afternoon. I can't wait until it's time to leave for my game.

mbyron Fri Sep 23, 2011 02:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 789360)
No. Prior to a change in team possession here simply means that if possession changes (and changes back), then it's a running play. A change of possession isn't a necessary condition for 2-33-1c (or the other citation from rule 10) to be in effect. A fumble behind the neutral zone is a loose ball play and A benefits from fumbling the ball here.
Well that's what I thought. In that case 2-33-1c is grammatically incorrect. Shocker, I know. :rolleyes:

Tom.OH Fri Sep 23, 2011 02:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 789361)
Thanks for the laugh. I love digging into the rules on a Friday afternoon. I can't wait until it's time to leave for my game.
Me to Rich, out the door in 1 hour 42 minutes...


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