Quick question
 

Without my rule book at the moment:

(NFHS RULES) A 1/10 from the A20. QB A12 drops back into the end zone, where is grabbed by the facemask by B55. He then fumbles the ball out of the back of the end zone.

Enforcement spot?

Canadian Ruling
 

CANADIAN RULING:

Enforce from the previous spot, AFD. Result is Team A 1D/10 @ A-35.

Fed - 1st and 10 from A35 10.3.1

ART 7 . . . The basic spot is the goal line for fouls, which are committed during
running plays by the opponent of the team in possession at the time of the
foul when the team in possession is responsible for forcing the ball across its
own goal line, and the related run ends in the end zone and is followed by a loose
ball, regardless of where the loose ball becomes dead.

Loose ball play, not running play, right?

This is what I was thinking. A lot of talk around me about enforcing from the goal line. I'm thinking previous spot due to loose ball play.

Loose ball play due to the fumble - previous spot enforcement.
Without the fumble - goal line spot for enforcement.

My assumption was that by taking the penalty - A is replaying the down - from the basic spot. If that is not correct please advise for my own learning.

It seems to me that marking off 15 from the goal line is punishing the offended team - A -

I was thinking that 10-4-7 applied because of the last couple of lines that talked about A forcing the ball into their own end zone and then having a loose ball. (BJ quoted the rule Art. I referred to.)

Therefore 1/15 from the A15.

I think 10-4-7 applies to running plays. This is a loose ball play.

After reading BJ post again - I think he is right - again!;)

In an interesting rules twist, A benefits from fumbling in this play. Had the QB held on to the ball the penalty would have been enforced from the goal line.

It's enforced from the goal line regardless of the type of play, in part to prevent exactly this kind of benefit from fumbling. 10-4-7

ART 7 . . . The basic spot is the goal line for fouls, which are committed during
running plays by the opponent of the team in possession at the time of the
foul when the team in possession is responsible for forcing the ball across its
own goal line, and the related run ends in the end zone and is followed by a loose
ball, regardless of where the loose ball becomes dead.

I don't believe this is a loose ball play. Fumble behind LOS is not loose ball. I would penalize from goal line. If they don't like it, they could decline and give B the safety.

2-33-1 seems to indicate it IS a loose ball play:

c. A backward pass (including the snap), an illegal kick or fumble made by A
from in or behind the neutral zone prior to a change of team possession.

Actually, it's one of the definitions of a loose ball play. See 10-3-1c:

A loose ball play is...

...a backwards pass (including the snap), illegal kick or fumble made by A from in or behind the neutral zone and prior to a change in team possession.

Any run before the fumble is also considered part of the loose ball play.

(Hint: This is why a bag is unnecessary for a fumble behind the line of scrimmage -- the spot of the fumble is never going to be the basic spot.)

Fumble behind the NZ is not a loose ball play UNLESS there's a change of possession, right? 2-33-1c

In any case, 10-4-7 refers to a loose ball (which we have) not a loose ball play.

I am an idiot.

No. Prior to a change in team possession here simply means that if possession changes (and changes back), then it's a running play. A change of possession isn't a necessary condition for 2-33-1c (or the other citation from rule 10) to be in effect. A fumble behind the neutral zone is a loose ball play and A benefits from fumbling the ball here.

The Redding guide (NFHS) covers this beautifully in a figure in Chapter 11. It's Figure 11-6 on Page 154, for those that have it.

Thanks for the laugh. I love digging into the rules on a Friday afternoon. I can't wait until it's time to leave for my game.

Well that's what I thought. In that case 2-33-1c is grammatically incorrect. Shocker, I know. :rolleyes:

Me to Rich, out the door in 1 hour 42 minutes...