NFHS - Rule 5-1-2(a)
 

A 2/10 @ A5. Sweep to the sideline for no gain. After the play, each team is called for a personal foul with B's foul clearly occuring first. What is the down and distance of the next play?

Enforce penalty in the order they happen.

15 yards against B takes it to the 20. First down for A. Then March off half the distance to the goal against A. Set the chains with 1/10 for A at their own 10.

1 & 10 @a10

No one is going to bite on 3rd and 5???

Can't figure 3rd and 5 even as a decent wrong answer. 3rd and 10, maybe - from the offsetting fouls crowd (incorrect as well), but how's 3rd and 5 a possibility?

Just for flavor:

NCAA, offset them. 3rd and 10 at the A-5.

I think he means by walking 15 one way, then half the distance (or 10 yds) the other way, leaving the chains where they were, and then playing 3rd down. That'd be 3rd and 5 from the 10.

Rule ref? This exact play (nearly) was discussed (well... yelled about) at a clinic just last season - basically ALL of the instructors and half of the room vs one guy who insisted they offset. It was clear that if the fouls were completely separate from each other, to enforce them in order. Only nearly simultaneous fouls were to be offset (including nearly immediate retaliation fouls).

10-1-5 (FR-96)

Emphasis is mine.


AR 10-1-5-III

Canadian Ruling
 

CANADIAN RULING:

Balance both UR fouls at PBD. Since they're both URs, Team A does not get the AFD from B's UR. Result: 3D/10 @ A-5.

I guess in my head the separation was more distinct in the OP than the caseplay you posted (I did mention that retaliatory PF's would offset, as in the caseplay)

before any of the penalties have been completed
 

before any of the penalties have been completed

this allows a pretty large window...and it shouldn't matter if they were committed on opposite sides of the field.

Fair enough, and point taken.

i agree
 

I agree though that the case play doesn't make a very good case for the larg window of separation....

I think my thread has been highjacked by the NCAA group, which is a much easier rule to come to a conclusion on.

Back to NHFS...I agree with those who answered 1/10 @ A10, but the rule is not very clear in my eyes, or the people I'm trying to convince. Does anyone have any older casebook plays or other material to help plead my case?

What isn't clear? 5-1-2a in part Note its "comma and any dead ball foul by B" You had 2nd down, a dead ball foul by B, which occurred first in order and thus the penalty is assessed against B first. (See 10-2-5) the new series is awarded and then A's penalty is assesesed.

Mark off 15 against B to the A20, 1st down A. Mark off half the distance against A to the A10, set the chains, 1-10 A from the A-10.

Found the casebook play I needed...

10.2.5 SITUATION A: With third and 8 on B’s 40, A1 advances to B’s 35 where he is downed. B1 piles on and, almost immediately thereafter, A spears B1. RULING: Both dead-ball fouls will be penalized in the order of their occurrence. This is not a double foul. However, since the yardage penalties offset, the proper signals will be given and the line-to-gain equipment will be set first and 10 from B’s 35 since the accepted penalty for the foul by B1 gave A a new series. However, if A2’s foul had occurred first, it would not be a new series. If A2’s spearing is judged to be flagrant, he shall be disqualified. (9-4-3i; 10-4-5b)

No chance of that happening!

Yes John, because none of us have ever DQ'd a player for a flagrant helmet contact. Get off it already. :rolleyes: