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-   -   Intentional Grounding Question (https://forum.officiating.com/football/79564-intentional-grounding-question.html)

stiffler3492 Sat Aug 27, 2011 02:19am
Intentional Grounding Question
 
I fall into two categories: Official (basketball only for now), and Broadcaster.

Tonight I was broadcasting a couple of high school games to kickoff the season here in Illinois, and I saw essentially the same play called two different ways.

Play 1: The QB was in the pistol formation (ie, not under center) with the clock winding down in the second quarter. He gets the snap from center and immediately spikes it. One of the officials throws a flag, and they enforce intentional grounding.

Play 2: The QB was in the shotgun, clock winding down in the second quarter. He gets the snap from center, and spikes it. No flag.

Different officiating crew for each game.

Can you guys help me out?

gred2424 Sat Aug 27, 2011 08:26am
Rule 5-2-e exception - It is legal to conserve time by intentionally throwing the ball forwardto the ground immediately after receiving a direct hand to hand snap
Because the quarterback was not under center to receive a hand to hand snap, this is a penatly for intentional grounding.

BktBallRef Sat Aug 27, 2011 08:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 783946)
I fall into two categories: Official (basketball only for now), and Broadcaster.

Tonight I was broadcasting a couple of high school games to kickoff the season here in Illinois, and I saw essentially the same play called two different ways.

Play 1: The QB was in the pistol formation (ie, not under center) with the clock winding down in the second quarter. He gets the snap from center and immediately spikes it. One of the officials throws a flag, and they enforce intentional grounding.

Play 2: The QB was in the shotgun, clock winding down in the second quarter. He gets the snap from center, and spikes it. No flag.

Different officiating crew for each game.

Can you guys help me out?
It's intentional grounding in both situations. Per the rule cited above, he must take a direct hand to hand snap from the snapper and spike it. Also, if he fumbles the snap, he can't legally spike it.

KSRef Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:13am
And the fun really begins when he takes the snap, turns around and spikes it backwards.

stiffler3492 Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:16am
So one crew got it right, the other missed it. Thanks.

BktBallRef Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 783993)
So one crew got it right, the other missed it. Thanks.
Yes. Otherwise, he could legally do what he did in play #2 at anytime.

Robert Goodman Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSRef (Post 783992)
And the fun really begins when he takes the snap, turns around and spikes it backwards.
Not as much fun as if he spikes it straight down and an official whistles anyway. Considering the enormous advantage a ruling of IW would give team A -- stopping the clock while the officials sort it out and they get the down over -- wouldn't you want to rule it as a forward pass if it seems to have been an IW?

BktBallRef Sun Aug 28, 2011 09:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 784062)
Not as much fun as if he spikes it straight down and an official whistles anyway. Considering the enormous advantage a ruling of IW would give team A -- stopping the clock while the officials sort it out and they get the down over -- wouldn't you want to rule it as a forward pass if it seems to have been an IW?
Do you really think any crew is not going to rule it a forward pass if it's spiked straight down?

Unless the QB turns aound and throws the ball backwards, it's ALWAYS going to be whistled dead as a forward pass.

ODJ Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSRef (Post 783992)
And the fun really begins when he takes the snap, turns around and spikes it backwards.
While it's not our mechanics to bag a backwards pass, I might here to let everyone know it's a live ball.

Mike L Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 783946)
I fall into two categories: Official (basketball only for now), and Broadcaster.

Tonight I was broadcasting a couple of high school games to kickoff the season here in Illinois, and I saw essentially the same play called two different ways.

Play 1: The QB was in the pistol formation (ie, not under center) with the clock winding down in the second quarter. He gets the snap from center and immediately spikes it. One of the officials throws a flag, and they enforce intentional grounding.

Play 2: The QB was in the shotgun, clock winding down in the second quarter. He gets the snap from center, and spikes it. No flag.

Different officiating crew for each game.

Can you guys help me out?
Might be one crew is more used to NCAA rules which do allow the QB to spike from a shotgun formation.

JRutledge Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike L (Post 784267)
Might be one crew is more used to NCAA rules which do allow the QB to spike from a shotgun formation.
I bet that was the issue based on what I know of those games and who is assigned.

Peace

jstewart Sat Sep 03, 2011 07:48pm
Last night we a 4th and goal at the 7. "A" lines up for a FG. The kicker takes the snap and in an attempt to do a fake. throws the ball into the end zone where no receiver was in the area. R ruled it intentionally grounding and penalized A from the previous and awarded the ball to B.

Robert Goodman Sat Sep 03, 2011 09:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstewart (Post 785414)
Last night we a 4th and goal at the 7. "A" lines up for a FG. The kicker takes the snap and in an attempt to do a fake. throws the ball into the end zone where no receiver was in the area. R ruled it intentionally grounding and penalized A from the previous and awarded the ball to B.
Did it look like an attempt to avoid loss of yardage? It's first down for B anyway, but could be a different spot.

mbyron Sun Sep 04, 2011 09:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstewart (Post 785414)
Last night we a 4th and goal at the 7. "A" lines up for a FG. The kicker takes the snap and in an attempt to do a fake. throws the ball into the end zone where no receiver was in the area. R ruled it intentionally grounding and penalized A from the previous and awarded the ball to B.
OK. Do you have a question?

jstewart Sun Sep 04, 2011 04:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 785534)
OK. Do you have a question?
It was just something none us had ever seen.


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