We all know that in the NFL a player can not touch or run into the kicker while kicking. What I am wondering is when is the kicker elibable to be touched or tackled by the opposing team? I have always thought it was when the kick was over and the kicker brought his kicking foot down and touched it to the ground.

Don't know about NFL, but NFHS...
 

NFHS rules:

R cannot run into or block, tackle, or charge the kicker except when:

a. Contact is unavoidable because it is uncertain that a kick will be made
b. R touches the kick near the kicker and contact is unavoidable
c.Contact is slight and partially caused by movement of the kicker
d. R is blocked into kicker by K

Each of these is a JUDGEMENT CALL by the R. The rules don't say anything about the kicking foot on the ground.


As an R, I'm looking for vulnerability of the kicker and any contact. If R hits K, most often I've got a call of some sort. I'll toss the flag unless I see R touch the ball first. If so, I give the "tip" signal so everyone knows the ball was touched. I can't say that I've ever seen K move into R and negate a foul due to his movement.

Running into or roughing the kicker can occur between the time the ball is kicked and when the kicker has a chance to return to an upright position. Thanks to the folks on this forum and Rogers Redding that is perfectly clear to me.

If you are talking about the Pittsburgh-Tennessee game, the kicker was completing but had not completed his motion, therefore, he was still a kicker.

The question I always ask when the kicker is contacted, is he (the kicker) in position to contact the opposing player. If not, flag it!

Yes I was refering to the Steeler/Titan game. Thanks for the reply.

I was wondering because in the game tape the kickers foot touched the ground after the kick and then defender slid into him. It was a very close call and I decided to try and find the "official rule. Thank you all again.

I bookmarked this site becuase it seems like a very informative place.

Welcome to the site. Are you an official or "just a fan"?

Here's the rule -

Rule 12 – Article 6


No defensive player may run into or rough a kicker who kicks from behind his line unless such contact:

a) Is incidental to and after he has touched the kick in flight
b) Is caused by the kicker’s own motions
c) Occurs during a quick kick
d) Occurs during a kick or after a run behind the line
e) Occurs after the kicker recovers a loose ball on the ground or
f) Is caused because a defender is blocked into the kicker

Supplemental Notes –

1) Avoiding the kicker is the primary responsibility of the defensive players if they do not touch the kick
2) Any contact with the kicker by a single defensive player who has not touched the kick is running into the kicker
3) Any unnecessary roughness committed by the defensive players is roughing the kicker. Severity of contact and potential for injury are to be considered
4) When two defensive players are making a bona fide attempt to block a kick from scrimmage (punt, drop kick, and/or place kick) and one of them runs into the kicker after the kick has left the kicker’s foot at the same instant the second player blocks the kick, the foul for running into the kicker shall not be enforced, unless in the judgment of the referee, the player running into the kicker was clearly the direct cause of the kick being blocked.
5) If in the judgment of the referee any of the above action is innecessary roughness, the penalty for roughing the kickershall be enforced from the previous spot as a foul during the kick.


I couldn't find anything in there saying 'unless its near the end of the game and the coach might get really mad if you call it'.

OK. The NFL grading scale is as follows:

7 - Correct call on a rare play (Franco Harris Immaculate Reception)

6 - Correct major call (Pass interference)

5 - Correct minor call

4 - Correct call but poor mechanics

3 - Inaccurate call

There is a 1 and 2 but don't have the details.

Anyway, rate the call of referee Ron Blum on the running into the kicker call in the Tennessee - Pittsburgh game.

No I am not a Referee I am just a fan of football. I grew up watching the Steelers in the 60s and 70s and still love the team today. Since I now live in California I follow the 49ers and I am what you might call a closet Raider fan but don't tell anyone. lol
The worst thing is my wife is a Patriot fan. It made for some very interesting times at my house these last two years.


Personally I did not agree with the call at the end of the Steeler/Titan game because it looked to me like the kick was over and the kicker took a step towards the defender. I thought the kicker tried to get touched. It was as you say a judgement call by the Referee.
I agree even less with the actions of Bill Cowher after the game. I understand his frustration with the call but I was embarassed as a Steeler fan by his actions. He should have at least gone and congratulated Jeff Fisher and the Titans.


Another question:

Can a kicker be penalized for trying to be touched or faking a hit by a defender? It seems like unsportsmanlike conduct but I could be reaching here. probably just sour grapes. lol

[Edited by Adam on Jan 15th, 2003 at 11:25 AM]

It could easily fall under making a travesty of the game.

My response to a kicker who gets knocked down by the wind is quietly walk over to him and say, "Hollywood, the camera was off."

We’ve been skirting a few issues here that I think are important. NFL may be different but under NF rules this kick was not over. The kick doesn’t end until a player gains possession of the ball or it becomes dead by rule. A player isn’t a kicker until he has legally kicked the ball and he continues to be the kicker until he has had a reasonable opportunity to regain his balance. The fact that his kicking foot has touched the ground after he kicked the ball has no bearing on his status as a kicker, when the kick ends or when he can be contacted. To me the foul called in this game was a classic example of running into the kicker. IMHO

New Official???
 

Adam,

welcome to the board.

Hey, if you're in Northern CA and interested in becoming an official, I know some folks that can help you.

Nice to have a fan on the board with an objective view.

Adam,

Time the cross over the Bay like Jerry Rice and make the Raiders your team.

REPLY: In NCAA rules, yes, there is such a rule.
<b>NCAA 9-1-3b:</b><i> "A kicker or holder simulating being roughed or run into by a defensive player commits an unsportsmanlike act (A.R. 9-1-3-V). </i> However, I think you might only see it called if there is no contact whatsoever, and the kicker/holder takes a dive. Even then, most referees are just going to ignore it. It's not the kind of call an official is looking to make. The Nedney thing at the end of the Pitt/Tenn game would not get such a flag in an NCAA game. There is no such specific rule in Federation.

NFL
 

NFL also prohibits the "acting" jobs by a kicker. 12-3-1-p

It is a UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT foul, 15 yards (from previous spot unless ball was dead). Can eject for "flagrant" act.

In my opinion, the Steelers-Titans call by Blum was a bad call because contact was slight and did not present a safety issue for the kicker (again, my opinion). Why wasn't the running into the kicker called in the Eagles-Bucs game? The contact with the kicker was much more obvious in that game, yet there was no flag?




________________________________
<i>But I'm only a youth official so what do I know.
Derock</i>

Part of the problem is you misunderstand the rule. There is no requirement that there be a "safety" issue unless you are calling roughing. Running into does not require that. It just requires the kicker be displaced. In the Eagles-Bucs game, if you are referring to Gramatica's acting, that was clearly him trying to draw a foul. Yes he was run into but the defender tried to prevent him from being displaced by holding him up. Gramatica fought to get loose so he could then flop.

If he was run into then it should have been a foul. If it wasn't a foul in the Eagles-Bucs game, then it should not have been a foul in the Steelers-Titans game. Both kickers were run into; both kickers were displaced (displaced being contact moved them from their spot). Nedney made himself fall to the ground while Gramatica tried to fall to the ground but was held up by the defender who ran into him!!!



_________________________
<i>But I'm only a youth official so what do I know.
Derock</i>

Its the rule DeRock, Deal with it!
 

In the likely event you missed the earlier post,

NFL Rules - Page 80
Rule 12, Section 2, Article 6, Supplemental Note (2)
Any contact with the kicker by a single defensive player who has not touched the kick is RUNNING INTO THE KICKER.

It's a "Rulebook Call" Derock, which is why you will never understand or be able to grasp the concept!

Nuff said!

Re: Its the rule DeRock, Deal with it!
 

OK KWH, I grasp the concept. But now what I don't understand is why this same concept doesn't apply to the Eagles-Bucs game when the defender ran into the kicker. Will you please explain that one?


_________________________________
<i>But I'm only a youth official so what do I know.
Derock</i>

Re: Re: Its the rule DeRock, Deal with it!
 

Because both officials were using good game sense and good judgment :D

Just my two cents. It makes total sense to me. The first instance there was an extra step or two by the defensive player and collided with the kicker. The kicker did act but there was contact and it was not "avoided" by the defensive player.

On the second one. There was shown intent to stop his forward movement and protect the kicker. the kicker actually moved to free himself from the help of the defense to keep him up and flopped.

That's what I saw and with my knowledge at this time that is the way I would have called it.

The only thing that is relevant in these two calls is the defensive player collided with the kicker. The collision is what prompted the call in the first situation and it should have been the same in the second. The fact that the defender held him up to prevent him from falling should have no impact on the call than Nedney's act.


____________________________
<i>But I'm only a youth official so what do I know.
Derock</i>

In your view of life, football and officiating...you are correct. Enjoy the rarified air up there???