New Play

[ABoselli]

That's what I was unsure of - so skip the part of my answer where I enforced the facemask, but keep the rest.

[HighSchoolWhiteHat]

my bad on the USC and the hold the fake screen pass was behind the LOS,(im thinking it was on B's 30) and thats where the hold was.

[James Neil]

B2 picks up the ball and begins to run being sure to grab, but not twist A4's face mask as he tries to stiff arm him at the B25.


Originally posted by HighSchoolWhiteHat


followed by a face mask on B2(grab is 15 yards he doesn't have to twist, the two handed face mask doesn't matter its only 1 penalty here)

HSWH,
If a player is just grasping an opponent's facemask isn’t that just a 5 yarder ? To bump it to a 15er doesn’t the player have to be grasping and twisting, turning or pulling?

[STEVED21]

Lets make this short and quick. All live ball fouls become a double foul, replay the down. All USC's enforced in order of occurance. I just can't go back and half the distance 2x to com up with the exact yardline but the down remains the same.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by STEVED21
Lets make this short and quick. All live ball fouls become a double foul, replay the down. All USC's enforced in order of occurance. I just can't go back and half the distance 2x to com up with the exact yardline but the down remains the same.

Exactly! I wholeheartedly concur 2/35 at the 10.

1st 15-yard penalty takes Team A back to the 20. The 2nd 15-yard penalty takes Team A half the distance to their own 10. Team A is penalized 25 yards, making it 2/35 from the 10.

[HighSchoolWhiteHat]

I guess a grab can be your judgement, on this play B not only grabbed he then dropped the ball(for some crazy reason ) and twisted the face mask with both hands

[JMN]

Guys, I've been rolling on the floor reading your responses. Great creativity in explaining your rulings.

I would enforce it as Mike Sears did (see copy below) except that I added my two cents after his repost.

We have double fouls, the down would be replayed. All of the live-ball fouls would cancel each other out, except B2 would be ejected for his flagrant face mask foul. We then penalize the UC fouls as dead-ball fouls and in the order of occurence. Penalize team A coach for his U.C. 15 yards back to the A-20. Penalize Team A another 15 yards for a4's taunt/spike. Half the distance to the A-10. I'm not sure of down and distance after penalty but the ball would be on the A-10 yardline, right?

Would it be 2/35 at the A-10? Or 1/10 at the A-10? I'm thinking 2/35.
__________________
Mike Sears


Mike, my answer is to replay the down 2nd and 40 from the A5. To get here, I took your UC enforcements and added the PA announcer to it to go another 1/2 the distance from the A10 to the A5. Line to gain is still the A45. (Oh, and Mike, you may need to invest in some black and white striped BVD's for such plays)

And HSWH is right. You should eject the coach for his second UC (since technically he's responsible for the announcer). I would probably conveniently forget this ejection.

Sorry to move us from gridiron war stories to Fantasy Island, but this was a fun one to sort out. Good job.

[HighSchoolWhiteHat]

So after this big headache I got, my mark offs were at least right.

I did say 2nd and 40 from the 5yard line.

my penalties were wrong. well at least I didn't hurt the teams . hahhahahahha

[ABoselli]

I say game over - they've made a travesty of the game, and I will not sit idly by while the game I love is made a travesty of! Rule 3-6-3 (or is it 6-3-6?) The referee has the discretion to do whatever he pleases. Both teams forfeit! Everybody is thrown out!

Now let's get something to eat.

[JMN]

PIZZA AND BEER ON BOSELLI!!

[Derock1986]

Originally posted by ABoselli
I say game over - they've made a travesty of the game, and I will not sit idly by while the game I love is made a travesty of! Rule 3-6-3 (or is it 6-3-6?) The referee has the discretion to do whatever he pleases. Both teams forfeit! Everybody is thrown out!

Now let's get something to eat.

Now you're talking Aboselli! Rule 3-6-3 (the Derock rule). That's what I've been saying all along.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by JMN
Guys, I've been rolling on the floor reading your responses. Great creativity in explaining your rulings.

I would enforce it as Mike Sears did (see copy below) except that I added my two cents after his repost.

We have double fouls, the down would be replayed. All of the live-ball fouls would cancel each other out, except B2 would be ejected for his flagrant face mask foul. We then penalize the UC fouls as dead-ball fouls and in the order of occurence. Penalize team A coach for his U.C. 15 yards back to the A-20. Penalize Team A another 15 yards for a4's taunt/spike. Half the distance to the A-10. I'm not sure of down and distance after penalty but the ball would be on the A-10 yardline, right?

Would it be 2/35 at the A-10? Or 1/10 at the A-10? I'm thinking 2/35.
__________________
Mike Sears


Mike, my answer is to replay the down 2nd and 40 from the A5. To get here, I took your UC enforcements and added the PA announcer to it to go another 1/2 the distance from the A10 to the A5. Line to gain is still the A45. (Oh, and Mike, you may need to invest in some black and white striped BVD's for such plays)

And HSWH is right. You should eject the coach for his second UC (since technically he's responsible for the announcer). I would probably conveniently forget this ejection.

Sorry to move us from gridiron war stories to Fantasy Island, but this was a fun one to sort out. Good job.

This is a tough one. Double foul, yes. But you had two change of possessions following a double foul which changes everything, NFHS 10-2-1b,c.

You have to work your way back to sort it out and my final result is a 5-yard penalty against A for the ineligible downfield before unsportsmanlikes.

The way I got there was.

1) Following the last change of possession, A scores. In order to keep the ball A must decline the facemask on B. That takes us back to the previous change of possession with the ball in possession of A. Now A to keep the ball must decline the holding penalty by B. But that leaves B with a choice of accepting the ineligible downfield and, of course, B will in order to stop the score.

2) Result of the aforementioned is 2 and 15 at A's 30. Then the unsportsmanlike against A's coach is enforced, 15 yards 2 and 30 at A's 15.

3) The announcer is technically not covered by either 9-5 or 9-8 the unsportsmanlike sections as 9-5 covers players acts and 9-8 covers coaches, substitutes, trainers and other team attendants. But enter rule 9-9-1 which gives the referee discretion to enforce an equitable penalty including awarding a score.

Given this wide latitude, I personally would penalize team A fifteen yards, half-the-distance in this case, and remove the announcer from the booth before play can continue.

My final result, A's ball, 2nd and 22 and one-half from A's 7 and one-half.

Then again, declaring a double foul and enforcing the unsportsmanlike would save a lot of time because my enforcement would require the next hour trying to get it through the coaches' heads about spots and changes of possession.

[ABoselli]

I don't believe A is entitled to keep the ball, have their live ball penalty enforced and decline B's penalty as A fouled before the final change of possession. They'll keep the ball but after the USC's are walked off only. The two changes of possession aren't consequential in terms of the clean hands rule because A ends up with the ball but they fouled before the first COP. If they had fouled after the final change only, then they would get to decline B's foul(s)and keep the ball after the enforcement of their penalty no matter how many COP's there are.

I think you enforce the USC's in order of their occurence as dead ball penalties (by rule) and replay the down.