Defensive player A1 slips and falls offensive player B1 falls on top of A1 and makes no attempt to get up. Is B1 holding?

Yes, if you judge it to be intentional.
 

I'm assuming that there was a change of possession during the play prior to the holding foul. A is the team that puts the ball into play and B is the opponent. The offense is the team in possession of the ball and the defense is the opponent. Just checking...

My working definition of holding is any intentional act not permited by rule that prevents an opponent from moving. Based on your example, I would not have a holding foul unless it was near the point of attack. In my view what you would have in most cases is a legal "pancake" block. So I would caution you to get a good look at the action and rule a legal block if you are not sure.

I think the crux of the matter is if the player (B1 in this case) is grasping the opponent in order to keep him from getting up. If he's laying flat on him and does not try to prevent the opponent from getting up by holding him down with his hands, I've got nothing.

I see D lineman fall during their charge and the A lineman blocking him will fall on him and keep him there. Good play, in my opinion, as long as he doesn't hold him there with his hands.

The play I refered to acured in game Eagles vs Giants. Giants had ball and scored a "TD" It was called back for offensive holding. O lineman laid on fallen D lineman TD called back. If anyone saw the play Was it the right call? Thanks

[Edited by pepper551 on Dec 30th, 2002 at 09:56 PM]

Re: Yes, if you judge it to be intentional.
 

Careful. Although it is not often called, the "pancake" is not legal. It is a violation of 9-4-2e, positioning oneself on the body of an opponent to gain an advantage - 15 yards. It is usually not called because the play is most likely not affected directly, but the "pancake" block engenders ill will and should not be tolerated.

a pancake block is very legal.


a pancake BLOCK is when you drive the defender into the ground . whats illegal about that?

as for the eagles game, and sorry im from phila and may sound bias here. the official said it was a bad camera angle and there was holding on the play. i didn't think there was a hold either, but thats their call.

If a player is laying on top of an opponent is such a way as to prevent that player from getting up - that's holding (or more correctly a violation of 9-4-2e; I need to look that one up!). I generally don't call this as I (as R) usually see this well behind the play. I give a stiff lecture to the offender and that takes care of that.

You can't keep a good man down!
 

Don't know about the NFL, but if I'm the U on a game where B lineman slips and A lineman falls on top to keep him down, I 9 out of 10 times will probably not have a call. I will watch closely for any "aftermath" and I will caution A that holding a man down on the ground is holding, but I probably won't throw unless it directly affects the play or develops into something more serious (like a personal foul or UC).

The next play is a great time to remind all A players as they come to the line that laying on top of a B player is in fact technically holding, so don't do it! My guess is that most coaches don't know this rule, either.


The only time I might call this is if A weighs 350lbs and B tops the scales at 150lbs and I risk having to stop the game and call in the "Jaws of Life" to save the poor B kid!

I don't believe it's holding because the player hasn't used his hands, arms or legs to hook, lock, clamp, grasp, encircle or hold in an effort to restrain his opponent. He's simply lying on top of him.

9-4-2e does not involve "holding" but is rather a personal foul call. The examples given in the Case Book show the intent of this rule and it clearly doesn't apply here. It's the old "climb on my shoulders and block the kick" rule.

Good play.