Dec.15, 2002, Maryland Youth Football League Championship
The Marys, (235-0) coached by Pa Joe P jr. are playing The Lands (234-1) coached by Mr James Nayzium

Officials (attending by special invitations)
Referee: Mr. ABoselle
Umpire: Mr. James Neil
Head Linesman: Mr. The Ref of Oz!!!

4 minutes into the first of the three 5 minute periods (Using Maryland youth football rules games last no longer then 25 minutes)
The Lands have the ball 4/10 @ K-40 , K2 punts a high short kick that lands mid field , While the balls in the air K52 blocks R75 in the back @ K-45 . Before the ball's been touched by any R player, K9 muffs the ball @ R-48 where it then rolls to the R-15, R32 recovers and advances to the R-25. During R32’s runback R4 holds K15 @ R-35.

Seconds after Mr. ABoselle tossed his flag for K52’s block in the back he slips in the mid-field mud puddle and busts his noggin on a sprinkler head and is out for the duration. Mr. Neil runs smack into Mr. Nayzium who is on the field yelling about the holding by R4 and he is also incapacitated for the remainder of the game. Mr. The Ref of Oz!!! knows the right thing to do is step in, give the options and cover for his crew mates. He contemplates asking the game announcer , a certain well respected Fanofficial Mr. Derock to join him and finish the game but thinks better of it when he see Mr. Derock engaged in fisticuffs with an irate mother who want to know why he's not in there with these clowns who haven’t called tripping on her Little Johnny Runningback in any game he’s played all year . So Mr. TRoO!!! goes it alone and gives these options ………………8^)

I'm immortalized forever! ( just like Mr. Bojangles, only without a cool song )

They don't run the option in that league, as defenses have wised up and just tackle everybody without the ball right after the snap. That makes identifying the ball carrier a lot easier.

I laughed out loud - good job.

With Mr Neil and Aboselli flat on their faces (bums), the coaches, players, and parents close in on Oz to confront him about the options. Oz puts up a valiant fight but is no match for the coaches AND parents who have taken the field. One coach shoves Oz while another took his whistle. Then a kid starts to urinate on Oz's shoes while 2 parents screamed insults at him. Oz, "all but one" second from being mauled by this angry out of control mob, reaches for his flag and tosses it straight up in the air as hard as he could. When the flag reached its highest point, it exploded with a call for help message in stars that read, "Derock, save us!" Meanwhile, Derock sat in the stand laughing as he watched this all unfold. After getting one parent straight in the stands, Derock realizes that he must step forward and save these 3 officials who presumed youth games would be a breeze compared to the high school varsity cracker jack championship. Derock stands and leaps from the sideline to the middle of the field in ONE JUMP and lands directly over Oz. At that instant the angry crowd recognized Derock and immediately began to retreat back to the sideline in fear of a 15 yard penalty or even worst--EJECTION! After single-handedly clearing the field, Derock then turned his attention on the other fallen officials. He first awakened Aboselli and told Aboselli, "get some shoes with better traction OR just stay out of the middle of the field where the mud puddle is--common sense (game sense) I would think." Derock then walks up to Mr Neil, who is still lying on the ground, and kicks him in the rear end. Mr Neil jumps up and says why did you do that? Derock says, "because I knew you had to be faking--what are the chances of TWO officials getting knocked out in the same youth game?" "Had you told Mr Nayzium to stay off the field, you would have never ran into him to begin with." Finally, Derock approaches Oz and hands him his white hat, solid gold whistle, and diamond studded flag and says to him "Oz, you call this game. You're not afraid to be the leader (unlike Mr Neil who faked being incapacitated in fear of having to take the white hat) AND you have better judgement (knows when to call for help and won't run through mud puddles).

Oh brother, give me a break . I was hoping that with a little levity I could ease Oz into working the enforcement on this play. I really wasn’t expecting any more of your crap. I’m not amused by any of your post. Just more of your chipped shoulder immature prattle.
I know I’m going to be sorry for this, but tell us old great one. Since as you say you know penalty enforcement, what are the options you would give concerning the fouls on this play?

4/10 @ K-40 , K2 punts a high short kick that lands mid field , While the balls in the air K52 blocks R75 in the back @ K-45 . Before the ball's been touched by any R player, K9 muffs the ball @ R-48 where it then rolls to the R-15, R32 recovers and advances to the R-25. During R32’s runback R4 holds K15 @ R-35.

Here's "my" call.
We have an illegal touching by K9 and holding on R4.
THE PENALTIES OFFSET--REPLAY THE DOWN!

Mr Neil,
If you don't want to deal with "my crap", then leave me out of your posts. You started 2 posts directed towards me. Am I your hero or something? If you want the big dog to stay in the house, STOP jerking his chain!!!!

In the goodness of the holiday spirit and for the love of officiating,
HAPPY HOLIDAYS Mr Neil!

[Edited by Derock1986 on Dec 25th, 2002 at 09:12 AM]

4/10 @ K-40 ,
[/B][/QUOTE]

Here's "my" call.
We have an illegal touching by K9 and holding on R4.
THE PENALTIES OFFSET--REPLAY THE DOWN! [/B][/QUOTE]

WRONG! You’re not even close. But this doesn’t surprise one iota .You have the game sense and rules knowledge of a rock. But hey, you’ve been doing it wrong for so long, why change now, right? And yes you are my hero. I really wish I could lie as well as you do. No wait, you don’t lie very well at all come to think of it. As far as the ONE thread I started directed toward you, excuse me. It was my sincere attempt to help you get a rule book. Your refusal to accept this offer doesn’t surprise me either... I will no longer use your name or direct any further postings toward you . Please do the same for me . Now please go to a fan board where you belong and leave officiating to those who care about getting it right.
.Happy holidays Derock

Here's "my" call.
We have an illegal touching by K9 and holding on R4.
THE PENALTIES OFFSET--REPLAY THE DOWN! [/B][/QUOTE]

WRONG! You’re not even close. But this doesn’t surprise one iota .You have the game sense and rules knowledge of a rock. But hey, you’ve been doing it wrong for so long, why change now, right? [/B][/QUOTE]

Exactly Mr Neil! Consistency--you're learning after all! Now all you need is some guts and a heart to take the leadership role on the field and you will be well on your way! I might even let you wipe the dirt off my shoes after some of my games.

Wherethehell did you get illegal touching from?

I was about to ask the same question.

Yes, there was some touching by the kicking team, but under NF rules it is called first touching (and NCAA rules it is called illegal touching) but in BOTH rules, this is not a foul.
Care to take another stab at this?

Let me take a stab -

The first touching is canceled because there's going to be an accepted foul here somewhere. R got the ball with clean hands, so they can keep it as long as the penalty for the hold is enforced from the R35. K has no options in this case. If R does want to accept the penalty on K's foul, we would have offsetting and a rekick.

If there's a double foul on a change of possession play, the team in possession at the end of the down can keep the ball as long as their foul was not prior to the (last) change of possession (clean hands) and their penalty is marked off. The other team has no options. I know its somewhere in the case book.

Do I pass?

PS - I haven't missed a Sunday in about three years. I've done yutes every year and continue to do them. I let a lot more go in those games (kids can't line up right, wiggle around in their stance, turn upfield early when they're in motion etc.) and concentrate on saftey, learning and fairness. When I'm doing varsity games where people's jobs are lost, I let a lot less go and make sure I know what the enforcements are.

[Edited by ABoselli on Dec 25th, 2002 at 07:26 PM]

First of all, merry christmas everyone....if Rock came to me with illegal touching i would go bOOOLiztick....ask him for his gamesense to explain why my kid trying to down a punt would be illegal, and if this were to really happen, my only last dying wish as i faded quickly after getting trucked by Mr. Neil would be that the white hat, after explaining his ruling, whatever it may be, would ask as he put his hand on his back pocket, "would you like me to show it to you?" and as I a faded away into the afterlife, i would die satisfied that the last time i got screwed in a game it was by a guy who had his rulebook on him....hahaha....

But praise the Lord that i did not get run into by ROck as he works out you know....
great post NEIL

Good job AB, I’m glad to see you’ve recovered enough to get back into the game. We all know you can’t keep a good man down. Great expiation of the clean hands principal and the cancellation of R's right to first touching...(I got a feeling someone we know is saying "that’s too confusing for my game sense and makes my head hurt so I aint going to do it" 8^(
I’m sure you know you’re not done yet though. I guess you wanted to get the live ball enforcements out of the way before you take care of anything else we have here in this play , right? …..hint, hint …..Coach Nayzium is going to wait next time for that holding flag he wants sooooo bad LOL 8^) and be careful with the trucking jokes Coach, I carry two flags and if I’ve regained consciousness and hear this you might be gone for good! 8^)

Oh ya AB …don’t forget to explain about setting the chains

You carry TWO flags? I hope you're joking. First sign of an official who intends to throw a lot of flags is when you see TWO flags! You don't need 2 flags Mr Neil (aka textbook flag happy official--Barney Fyfe with not one but two guns!).

Mr Nayzium do you really want this guy calling your game?? He may know the rules but a combination of being a stickler for the rules and 2 flags can be disasterous. Unless Mr Neil is calling the game one-sided, you too Mr Nayzium will feel the effects of Mr Neil. I would think you would much rather see the 2 teams play than after every play see if Mr Neil has thrown yet another flag or even BOTH flags! As a coach, I would rather let the 2 teams decide the outcome with as little influence by the officials as possible. If you see an official calling a game with 2 flags and a rule book in his pocket, that official is going to disrupt the flow of the game by over asserting himself. One flag is enough and leave your rule book at home.

I may emphasize game sense a lot but I let 'em play and the games are enjoyable. I make sensible calls and stay away from calls that require on the field rule book explanations.

Flags and a rulebook
 

This is interesting. I can't believe this, but I'm actually going to have to agree with Derock on one thing, sorta. I would never take a rulebook out on the field with me for a game. However, I don't think Mr.Neil ever said that he would either. In my opinion, it makes you look real bad to take a rulebook out on the game field with ya.

Now, as for the 2 flags. I've worked with a bunch of officials that carry 2 flags. I only carry one flag myself. But its a personal preference issue. Its kinda like the issue of using a finger whistle or lanyard type. There are times when having 2 flags can be useful.

Derock, seriously, I'm not taking aim on you. But it really does seem like you need to spend some more time in the rulebook and casebook. Nobody is saying that game sense isn't important. But knowledge of the rules is IMPERATIVE. You must have the knowledge of the rules in order to properly officiate the game. In other words. Having air in your tires is an important thing when going on a trip, however, if your gas tank is empty it ain't gonna matter if your tires are properly inflated or not.

Take some time to study that rulebook at every opportunity you have. And then come back and battle these guys if you like. But until then, they will continue to carve you up like a christmas turkey if you don't know the rules.


The Doctor

Sign? what sign? I carry two flags and I'll stand right next to you and I'll bet you will not even know I have them. You won't even see the first flag and that's the one easiest to toss.

I take it you have never had a flag for illegal motion, a hold or illegal shift followed by a face mask on a tackle or late hit OOB on the same play.
Stuff like this does happen and that's what the second flag is for.

But, I suppose one can toss the hat or bean bag. That really means a lot right?... Wrong.

I've got to agree with Tom about the two flags. I carry two myself. One at my waist and one tucked fully into my back pocket. Only had to use both of the twice in four years.

Chain crews are used to waiting to move if they see yellow.

Re: Flags and a rulebook
 

Well said :)

I'd add that understanding proper terminology is THE key starting point for any good official. To be the best officials we can, we have to know the rules and THEN know when to apply them.

OK, well, we walk of 10 from the end of the run (sorry, in my first go, I was thinking the run ended beyond the R35 so I was going from there - I went back and looked) so it's 1/10 from the R15 (from here forward referred to as the A15) and I throw out Coach Nayzium - Rule 11 - just because. No, no, just kidding.

As far as carrying two flags, I've had to use two flags just once, so I carry one. In my opener this year, the umpire had to throw two on one play (a punt). The only time I needed the second one, it was an unsportsmanlike (in a yute game) on the team that I had just called a hold on on a long gainer and the little darlings were muttering "bull**** call" as they passed me on the way back to their huddle. I just told the closest official to me to give me his flag and I tossed it. I have to give the coach credit as when he asked me why I threw it, and I told him, he made his players apologize to me and admonished them that that was not what this game was about. Excellent job by him.

1st and 10 for A (formerly R) at the A30
 

AB-
As much as I like controling my sidelines without flags, we are going to have to have a 15 yard UC tacked on against the Coach of K (JimNazium) since the Umpire ran into him. That would make it 1st and 10 for A (R) on the A30 under NFHS rules.
(Perhaps this UC could be a good example of why veteran officials carry two flags!)


Even though I'm pretty sure DeRock would rule the play as follows:
1) The two live ball fouls offset! (Clean hands? Whats that? It must not be important 'cause DeRock's never heard of it!)
2) A timeout would be charged to JimNazium for being on the field. (I believe this is a 30 second timeout as we are within the last two minutes of the first of three periods, but they may get the full 2 minutes under Maryland rules)
3) Coach JimNazium is additionally charged with a delay of game penalty for his unabaited run at the Umpire, (the penalty for delay of game is a 10 second runoff!)
4)The argumentative mom in the stands is ejected!


[Edited by KWH on Dec 26th, 2002 at 12:10 PM]

The AD did it!
 

...and don't forget the penalty and ejection of the AD for allowing that exposed sprinkler that killed ABoselli! Oh, sorry AB! Glad to hear that you recovered. lol

Mr. Neil, great post!

Gentlemen, I carry two down indicators. One to keep track of downs, one for the previous spot. Two whistles. I put my lanyard whistle in my mouth pre-snap and let it fall at the snap. Then on the rare occasions I do blow the play dead I use my finger whistle. I carry two bean bags. In two games this year I had to toss them both during a down and I was glad I had them. I carry two flags (as do most officials I work with), one tucked at my waist on my non throwing hand side, one tucked DEEP in my rear pocket. I started doing this after a player told me to go ahead and “toss another one”. I’d banged him for a clip and he wouldn’t shut up after I’d told him I’d heard enough. I though it looked pretty silly me tossing an imaginary flag. I haven’t had to toss both yet for anything live but I figure it’s better to be prepared.
I have at least two of everything and I mean EVERYTHING in my game bag. Not only to replace anything lost or damaged, buy also for that sometimes forgetful crewmate I may happen to be working with.
I keep a full set of NFHS “Books” in my game bag. These are there to use in case the crew need to refer to them in our pre-game or to check on anything we need to clarify during our post-game. Never would I have one with me on the field, NEVER!
It seems someone here can’t conceive of anyone actually being able to quote or understand the rules without a book to read from. I’m sure it’s a hell of a lot easer to shine on reading the dam thing and make up your own rules as you go like this someone. But some people think they are bigger then the game and prance around demanding RESPECT! All the while thinking “OHOOO I’m sooo important! We defiantly have one here who I will now only refer to as the” ANTI-REF”.
This brings me to the reason I use these on-line forums. I come here to learn and improve my officiating skills. I wonder why the Anti-Ref comes here.

Here’s my take on this play

4/10 @ K-40 , K2 punts a high short kick that lands mid field , While the balls in the air K52 blocks R75 in the back @ K-45 . Before the ball's been touched by any R player, K9 muffs the ball @ R-48 where it then rolls to the R-15, R32 recovers and advances to the R-25. During R32’s runback R4 holds K15 @ R-35. Mr. Neil runs smack into Mr. Nayz who is on the field yelling about the holding by R4

I will consult the R captain only and will give him what I think is his best option first. I will tell him he can decline K’s BITB and keep the ball after having his foul enforced. It will be his ball 1/10 @ his own 30. Or accept and we’ll replay the down 4/25 @ K-25 (Coach Nayz gets banged either way).
If he declines I march off 10 for the hold from the end of R32’s run because the foul occurred beyond the BS, then add I’ll add 15 for the USC on Coach Naz, God rest his soul. I’ll then set the chains. I’ll be able to explain to Coach Nayz why his captain wasn’t consulted and how the clean hands thing works just as soon as I get to him in that big Grid Iron in the sky. This should be soon seeing as how the Anti-Ref has just beaten me to death (he works out you know) and has taken over the game because I have no game sense

Just as an after thought, would an IP call on Coach Nayz be the better way to go here? I’m sure he’d think so seeing as it would go away if this was the case. Just wondering what you guys think. Well actually I’m just wondering what 99% of you all think. The Anti-Ref can keep his option to himself

Re: 1st and 10 for A (formerly R) at the A30
 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

LOL I see you've worked Maryland youth ball too LOL

I bring two of everything in my bag as well (except shoes) and sometimes three (socks)-(I have the recurring nightmare of forgetting my pants or shirt). I keep the books in the bag for the very same reason - pre-game. We never have pre-games at yutes unless there's a real new guy. If I'm in charge, he'll end up refereeing the littlest kid game.

I still carry two whistles (the first as a finger, the second in my pocket) but stopped carrying a lanyard whiostle. I used to do what you do with the dropping after the snap, but it would hit me in the face if I had to run, and that got annoying.

Brain cramp here - what's an IP?

IP = Illegal Participation

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

Illegal Participation, I was thinking USC are non-contact fouls.

BTW AB…I have an extra pair of shoes in my bag just in case you need them LOL

You must have one of those hockey bags that can fit a small family in them. I'm still drying out one of my pairs from the last varsity game I did in a small pond masquerading as a football field. I'm not saying it was wet, but ducks kept having to be shooed away from the end line.

IP. IP. Hmmmm. No. I think UC does it here (see, I can acronym!) To use a derock favorite - Neil initiated the contact. If Coach Nayzium was yelling at me and had his gaze my way, he couldn't have seen Mr. Niel bearing down on him. Mr. Niel must have hit his head on those headset battery packs they carry - ouch, that'll leave a mark.

For the record, THEY made up the JimNayzium stuff for hitting the umpire....This is all hypothetical...No confusion with some of my real scenarios here...i have never run into an official....i may have egged cars on the way out, but never during the game...haha kidding ofcourse....

just clear my name of any misconduct, thanks....guys....

Coach , my girl friend just told me it's scary when she hears me laughing so loud when I'm in the other room all alone LOL

Re: Flags and a rulebook
 

Doc, very well said and you're right. I'm getting carved up and spit out and receiving far too much attention to be the "anti-ref". These guys thrive on quoting the rules and I can understand why but being a rules expert does not always equate into being a great official. Actually, some of these guys are probably sitting their with the rule book open as they respond to these posts so I don't think that qualifies them as a rule expert. Unfortunately, you won't have that rule book open when you're officiating the game. I read the NFHS rule book once a year before the season begins and refer to it during the season on certain rules clarification. Believe me, I know the rules I just don't have a rule book to quote from (can't find it--looked every where for it since I started posting on this forum). Because I can't find my rule book, I'm not doing so well in this forum but I will get another one and beat Mr Neil and a few others over the head with it the way they did me. Maybe then I will be able to build more credibility as an official in this forum. Until then, I will "try" to resist the urge to express my views unsupported by the rule book.

Derock,

why after 7 years as an official aren't you doing high school games???


don't tell me you don't want to.

I think we all know why

I don't have my book open to refer to when posting. I know the rules because I think it's important to know the rules. Just like the kids think its important to practice to play the game, I think its important to practice to officiate it. Imagine a QB who gives the playbook a passing glance but would rather rely on his 'game sense' to carry the day. "Don't worry coach, you get too bogged down in plays and such, all you need is game sense!"

If you put enough time and discussion into it, you will learn them and be able to apply them when on the field. A good feel for the game is always wrapped around a solid knowledge of the rules.

Don't bother with the 'right out of the case book' examples you plan on trotting out. I'll bet most of us here are pretty familiar with them already. Why not try to give yourself a wierd situation and see if you can rule correctly?

very good and well stated abosseli, I also liked your post on the other discussion board about how to get rid of a bad crew memeber.

Aboselli,
Having a "feel for the game" is what separates the GREAT players from those who are good players. You can study the rules all you want (and you must) but you never elevate your game to the next level until you develop your feel or sense for the game. You see, having "game sense" is knowing when to abandon the rules (or in the case of the QB, when to abandon your pocket protection).

Officiating is pretty much the same. If you want to truly become a great official, know the rules but don't forget your "game sense".

I disagree
 

Mr. Derock,

:(I DISAGREE WITH YOU!! VEHEMENTLY!!!!!!!!:(

You wrote ..."having "game sense" is knowing when to abandon the rules". Please tell me that you exaggerated your point.

As officials, I don't believe we should ever "abandon the rules", otherwise why are we needed? Aren't we hired to make sure that we control the game and enforce the rules?

We should certainly be judicious in our use of the rules and may CHOOSE not to call a foul if it's immaterial to the play and doesn't constitute a safety issue, but to abandon the rules under a game sense "feel" for the game is not only irresponsible, but absolutely contrary to my understanding of what an official is all about.

I welcome your comment to clarify your point, but if instead you choose to waste this board to justify your position to "abandon the rules", forget about it. There is no way that you will convince me that there is ever a time when it's OK to abandon the rules. Game sense - YES, anarchy - NO

I think I have rules knowledge and a feel for the game. My ability to demonstrate this 'feel for the game' is extremely limited if not impossible in this forum. Demonstrating rules knowledge is not - that's why I discuss rules here.

The only way you could tell whether I have a 'feel for the game' is to watch me work. Does my game have good pacing, do I officiate preventively, do I have a rapport with the other officials, players and coaches, am I approachable, how do I respond when something crazy happens, do I hustle, am I in position, is my concentration level high, am I loose etc etc etc... It's like fine art - I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it!

I try to apply the rules fairly and equitably. That sometimes means that the letter of the law isn't followed, but the spirit is. That never means abandoning the rules.

I have had the opportunity to do high school but youth fits perfectly into my schedule PLUS I make more money doing youth. On the average, I can make around $2500 for just working Saturdays for 2 1/2 months and then pick up $500-600 more in post season tournaments. Thats around $3000 in one football season. It averages out to about $1000 per month and I only work on Saturdays! What does high school pay?

Re: I disagree
 

JMN, relax...good air in, bad air out. Again...breath.

Sorry, maybe "abandon" is a bad choice of wording. What I mean is you need to know when an "adjustment" from the normal way of business is necessary. Better?


[Edited by Derock1986 on Dec 27th, 2002 at 04:02 PM]

Derock,
Even an adjustment to the rules is really UNacceptable. Rules are the very foundation of the way an official conducts his business. The way JMN stated it was pretty good. Sometimes even if you see a hold you don't call it. If the hold is not affecting the play OR if the game is 50-0, those are good times to keep the flag in your pocket. Now, sometimes you see a block below the waist that doesn't affect the play, but you SHOULD still call it. Regardless of the score or play situation, SAFETY is paramount. Thats another good statement to live by.

Chill out Derock.

The Doctor

Doc,
I would never have a game that is 50-0 because I will not allow a team to embarrass or humiliate another team that way. In youth, a team with a 4 TD lead clearly has an advantage in player size and/or skill so they will get the win but I'll use my flag to slow them down and make sure they don't run up the score. The winning coach doesn't like it but he understands and will appreciate it even more when he himself is on the other end watching his kids get pushed all over the field. You guys must understand...I call YOUTH games. You can't officiate a youth game the same way you do high schoolers. When doing youth, making "adjustments" at times, is necessary. For instance, if I have a kid on the line who can't sit still I can't penalize the team every play (well, I could but what sense would that make?) I will have to make an adjustment to the rules and ALLOW the lineman some movement or else the offense will NEVER get a play off. If in my judgement, the offense gains an advantage from the movement then I will ask the coach to replace the player. This is why I emphasize game sense so much because you need at all levels but especially in youth.

Derock,

Thanks for clarifying that you didn't really mean "abandon". You meant "adjust". That's a bit better as long as it reconciles with the rules.

I'm not hyperventilating; in fact I was perfectly calm when I replyed to your post. And breathing isn't optional, but thanks for the concern. Also, I agree with you that officiating HS is different than officiating youth ball. Maybe that's one of the reasons you take a lot of heat on this board. Still, you have radical views relating to understanding the rules as compared to most of us.

I too (and would guess most if not all officials) may "find" a penalty when the game is lopsided and beyond competitive. However, I try to minimize them and don't do it to control the score as much as I do the tempo of the game. I may still have a 50-0 game at the youth level, but if I do, the winning coach will get guidance from me to run the ball (and we have a running clock). Derock, I don't believe it's your (our) place to have such a significant impact that you actually materially affect the score. I hope that our "game sense" is consistent and not used to an extreme.

At some point you just have to let the kids play, even if it's a lopsided, ugly, can't wait to get it over game. That's part of the deal you get when you take up officiating.

be afraid, be very afraid!!!!!!!
 

This has got to be a joke. Every time this guy posts he comes up with the most outrageous poppycock I’ve ever heard. He tells us what it takes to officiate at a higher level yet he officiates at the lowest. He says he knows the rules but couldn’t find the basic spot if it was pasted to his fore head. He’ll make up his own rules as he sees fit and abandon others he doesn’t agree with. He’ll manipulate the score and tell coaches how to coach all the while DEMANDING their respect. He’s never worked anything but the lowest level of ball, yet he’ll tell us it’s WAY more difficult then HS. I believe he really thinks we know nothing about working youth ball. If I hear about his game sense and how to officiate at this level one more time I think I’ll bust my gut laughing. LOL
There’s no doubt in my mind that there’s not one of us here doing this for the money, yet this guy is bragging about it. This past year I worked about 70 games from Jan through Nov. I worked WH , Ump, both wings and BJ for Pop Warner , Middle School , High School , woman’s-pro , and adult flag.. To do this I had to at times work games 5 days out of the week with up to 4 games on Saturday( first game 9:00am leave field 6:00pm). I made approximately 2200 dollars before expenses.
Unless Maryland plays youth ball year round this guy’s numbers just don’t add up.

Gentleman, if this guy isn’t just playing a huge joke on us and is actually serious, then he must officiate in Bizarro Land in a parallel universe where they do everything backward. If not, we must be afraid, be very afraid!!!!!!! Because……………

THE ANTI-REF HAS COME AND THE END IS AT HAND!

LOL…. 8^)…. LOL

Guys....I have to give you this play that really still bothers me still today. I made a big mistake and it sort of coincides with what we are talking about here.

I made the move to white hat 2 yrs ago. I love it and wouldn't want to do anything else. Was an umpire before that. I had a full varsity schedule this past season and had a blast at the referee position. Now, with that said, allow me to tell you guys what a bonehead thing I did in a youth game.

This game was between 2 very good 12 yr old teams. The game was everything it was cracked up to be. Hard fought battle to the bitter end. In fact, we went to overtime. In our youth leagues, we play off just like a high school game. Put it on the 10 yard line, and each team gets a turn. And we continue this until we get a winner. The first team that took their turn was UNable to score. The other team got their turn. And on 4th down the QB executed an awesome fake sweep to the left, tucked the ball to his side and pranced into the endzone UNTOUCHED. Oh, I almost forgot, all the while he's shaking the ball in the face of a defender who was trying to catch up. As you may have already guessed, I threw my flag on it. As the flag was flying through the air, I wished I could somehow make it fly back into my hand. But, <sigh> I was unable to get it back. So, I had to give the signal for unsportsmanlike conduct and also the uplifted arms that shows the touchdown STILL stood. The crowd absolutely booed me off the field. I felt like crap. The call I made was a good call, under the rules. However, I should have had the sense to keep it in my pocket. And then go over and counsel the kid.

Sometimes we make mistakes. I wish I hadn't thrown that flag. It didn't matter in the grand scheme of things. It wasn't a safety issue. It didn't allow an unfair advantage for the score. I should've had better "game sense" than to do that. However, in my defense, I'm glad I knew the rules backwards and forwards so that I didn't make it worse. For instance, what if I had taken the touchdown away in that instance? The coach was begging me to do so. He was arguing that the flag came out before the touchdown was scored. He was absolutely correct, it did happen before the kid crossed the goal line. But, as most of us know, that doesn't matter.

It was mistake that I made. But had I not known the rules, I would have REALLY messed it up BIGTIME.

Sorry for such a long post guys.


The Doctor

good post Doc. Shows how we learn no matter how long one's been doing this .I have a similar story and want to hear what you guys think . But it’ll have to wait . Got's to do the honey-do’s ;^) BRB

The bigger bonehead play would have been to take away the TD. I think that we are so conditioned to flag that crap (especially at the youth level, where the kids have to be broken of the habit of imitating NFL antics) that sometimes game situation may end up secondary in our thought process.

I doubt you would have had that kid's attention too long. He just scored the winning TD in a hard fought championship game - not the optimum time for hearing lectures from refs. Maybe your flag said more than the lecture would have.

As far as derock dispensing advice and officiating philosophy, take it for what its worth. Picture the youth player advising the varsity or college player on technique and what his reaction would be.

Doc Moore,

I know what you mean when you say "I wish I could make it fly back into my hand". We've all been there.

I think the flag was justified and in my game sense, the right throw. Bottom line; it didn't matter anyway other than to show that that type of garbage doesn't belong on the field. I would stand by that any day. (If you want to talk about REAL bonehead moves, let's discuss early whistles or better yet, inadvertent whistles. Of course, I've never had one -lol, lol-).

I'm guessing that you didn't get a lot of Christmas cards from the fans... So be it; we're not there to win a popularity contest.