3rd and 17 from a's 20. a passes down field and b interferes. after play a jumps up and punches b in face. live ball pass interference and dead ball personal foul. what is down, distance, and position after penalty is enforced?

Live ball penalty comes first. Defensive pass interference. This should be 15 yard penalty with an automatic 1st down. In your example, you really didn't say if the pass was caught or not. If it was caught, and the offensive team decided to decline the penalty, then so be it. However, I assume the pass was incomplete. 15 yards and automatic first down, the ball is moved to the 35 yardline of A. Then comes the dead ball personal foul. 15 yard penalty against A with an ejection of the player who threw the punch. So, the ball would go right back to the 20 yard line. And it would be first and 10 for A.


The Doctor

It Don't Matter Melvin
 

It does not matter how many different places you ask this question Melvin..you are going to get the same answer, even though it is not the one you want to hear. 1st and 10 at the 20. Drive on!!

Melvin, this enforcement was changed several years ago. Coaches felt that 1st and 25 was too much to overcome.

Now, if the PI occurs, the penalty is assessed, the chains set and the referee blows his whistle and now, there's a dead ball against the offense, it would be 1st and 25. But if the foul occurs before the ready whistle, the chains are not set until all fouls are marked off.

In short, THE LOCAL OFFICIALS GOT IT RIGHT!

Reason for posting on different boards is because I thought someone would at least reply with the actual rule and not just comments. I trust that you are all correct. Just thought there would be a die hard on one of these boards that would reference the rule.

NCAA Rule
 

NCAA Rule is 5-2-7

oh, another reason i questioned the call is because the BJ threw the flag for the DB-PF on A for punching but did not eject the kid. He even told B's coach that the PF was for A punching his player in the face. I didn't think that was a judgement call on whether or not to throw the kid out for throwing a punch to the face. In KY that is automatic. Thus, my reasoning for questioning the whole situation.

Melvin...

I would certainly need to see the actual incident for myself. But it is my feeling that a punch thrown means an ejection. And I don't think it even matters if he connects with his punch or not. NFHS rule 9 section 4 deals with this in depth. It says that striking an opponent is an ejection. Now, as for what KY does, I haven't a clue either. But I would think they should follow the NFHS guidelines. Was this a High School game?

I'm really surprised that a player wasn't ejected for punching an opponent. This kinda makes me think that maybe it might have been something other than a punch. Of course, I haven't seen the play.


The Doctor

H.S. game in the Semi-final of class AA. Two veteran white hats on the crew. One was the linesman whom I've worked with in baseball. It was without a doubt a punch. Official even told the coach that it was a punch. In KY there is 0 tolerance for those actions. I am instructed by the KHSAA to have the P.A. read a sportsmanship card over the speakers as I am reading it to the captains and coaches prior to the coin toss. Which by the way, are there any other states that read a sportsmanship card/info to the capts before the game. It is like a warning right up front about taunting, fighting, cursing, etc. Says no warnings are to be issued. Actions will cause immediate ejection.

The reason there were two white hats is that we treat post season like an all-star officials crew. Rather than one crew do the games, the KHSAA works with the local assoc to pick the best officals and fill out a crew. They don't always pick a LJ and put him in the LJ position. Obviously an R will work the R position but the rest is a coin toss.

NF 2-25-5
The line to gain is the yard line established when a new series (first down) is awarded. Unless there is a penalty following the ready-for-play signal, the line to gain is 10 yards in advance of the foremost point of the ball when placed for the first down of the series.

With regards to the punch, if it was a closed hand punch, he should be ejected. If it was an open handed push to the face or face mask, I would probably not eject.

How do you punch someone in the face who's wearing a helmet with a mask?

Bob

What you have is a live ball 10 yard pass interference penalty on b. ball placed at 10 yard line, automatic first down. Then you have a dead ball unsportsmanlike against a for throwing a punch. Move them back 15 yards, eject player a, and its still a's ball, 1st and 25!

Where did you come with this 10 yard PI penalty from?

Regardless, team-A will have it 1/10 not 1/25. The rules covering that changed at least 5 years ago, maybe more

I think Derock has misread the situation as posted and has the direction of A's movement (in or out) screwed up. But the enforcement he suggests that results in a 1st and 25 is also wrong anyway.