Among the schools we service almost every school's football coaches rountinely come several yards on the field during a game. It is not unusual for a coach to be ten yards on the field during a play.

Having worked in another part of the country and watching high school games in other areas they don't seem to have this problem.

Is there any other area that has either had this problem and corrected it or still has it?

If you corrected it, how did you do it?

SIDELINE WARNING

SIDELINE INTERFERENCE (5 YARDS)

SIDELINE INTERFERENCE (15 YARDS)

Ed I have never got past the sideline warning. This is a game control issue for your wingmen. I generally let them contol the sidelines. If the coaches are "in their way" then we begin the above sequence.

We have a problem with coaches being on the field prior to the snap but not usually during the play. But my question is this.

Sideline warnings are supposed to be for having too many coaches in the team box, not for being on the field. So, why are sideline warnings given for this?

BBR,

See 9-8-1k,3 Penalty

nvfoa15,

BBR is right, in theory. Coaches or nonplayers on the field should be 15 but really no one calls it. This year our association adopted a policy similar to yours since coaches abused the leeway we gave them. They were informed the fisrt time on the field was a sideline warning, second was 5 yards, third and subsequent 15 unsportsmanship against the head coach, 2 and he is gone. Our intention was to stop the coaches from getting an advantage by coming out to the hash to give the QB the play, or creeping into the defensive backfield. We had great success with this. Even the most abusive coaches stayed off the field.

If a coach is crowding the field but is clearly behind me as a wing, I use the same rule as an exiting substitute; If it is behind me, I don't see it. Once the coach gets out as far as I am or is on the field at all when I am stretched to the sideline, I hit him with the warning. Very few coaches are as big as me, former O-lineman, so I remind them that not only do they risk yardage if they do it again, I may inadvertently run though them if they do it during a play. I usually get a broad smile from the coach and I have never had to bang a coach with yardage for crowding the field. The sideline warning can be diplomatically applied so that further instances are prevented and it is the most useful but least used tool the wing official has IMHO.

BulldogMcC

I concur with BulldogMcC. Last year Illinois really stressed keeping coaches off the field, but then did not really have it strictly enforce it during the playoffs. This year our officials' association, Southwestern Athletic Officials' Association, had a clinic in conjunction with the mandatory Rules meeting. At this clinic, we invited some local coaches, one of which has a long reputation of being on the field during the game. The coaches were asked their opinion. They stated that sometimes they get caught up in the moment, and unknowingly enter the field. They stated that as long as they do not interfere with the official's performance,then they should not be penalized. Most of the wing official's in our association agreed, that out of sight out of mind for warning/penalty enforcement, but reminded the coach that this did not apply to players, nor did it give them leeway to be on the field to verbally abuse the official's calls or judgment, for out of sight does not mean out of ear shot. We also told the coaches that if they did not move back when asked by wing official, then sideline warnings or other appropriate action would be taken.

My first 9th grade game I ran a player over while working the wing . I would have run BEHIND the coach if I had not hit his player.The play was on my side of the field!!! During the pregame I followed my Chapter's rules interpeter suggestion to discuss sideline clearance with the Head Coach and ask the coach who I can use to help me manage the sideline.( So he has time to coach the game )The Head coach pretty much ignored my question but standing there looking down at his player gasping for breath wondering if his ribs were broke , he looked like he was sorry he brushed me off.

I make it a point to eyeball the head coach and inform him my concern is for the players and coaches safety. After several games I never had a problem. I make sure the coach appoints a "sideline manager" to work with me.

Dave, I'm aware of the two rules. But neither rule specifically covers coaches and non-players who are on the field. In fact, 9-8-1k specifically says "...not on the field." Case play 9.8.3 discusses coaches and non-players being in the coaches' box, not on the field. Our association follows the same practice as yours but like Steve stated, it would seem to me that it's 15 yards anytime a coach is on the field during a play.

Also, for those who commented that if the coach is behind them, they don't see him. Our wing officials stand on the sideline. We adjust in, if necessary. So, if he's behind me, he's in the coaching box.

BBR,

You're right, I didn't read the rule correctly. As for my crew, I tell them if the coach is on the field during a play and he interfers with your ability to officiate the game or the play FLAG HIM! But I'm not so concerned with a coach who is on the field a few yards when play is inside the twenty. For this situation I think it is politically correct to use the warning/penalty procedure

I am generally leinient with coaches who converse with their player(s) between downs. However, in a recent evaluation I was gigged for this. Since then I am less likely to let coaches get away with it.

Several years ago when this was a POE I had a coach, and rightly so, say to me that I was more concerned with the sideline than the game. I took this comment with the grain of salt that was intended and concentrated more on the game on the field (where the outcome should be decided) than sideline management. Unfortunately, this decision as come around to bite me in the a$$ and I have had to resort to the warning/penalty procedure. I will have to say that if your going to do it do it early - that will save your trouble in the end.

In Indiana, the coaches are the ONLY evaluators, so nobody calls sideline warnings or penalties. I usually ask a coach once or twice per quarter to get his kids back please. I always ask the Head Coach, preferably when he wants to talk to somebody else. They usually get annoyed enough at the kids to move them back to an acceptable distance. If I were to use a flag for a warning and/or penalty in Indiana it would insure my crew of a poor tournament vote.

Tom Cook,

We have the same problem in Illinois. The coaches are the evaluators and their ratings determine promotion and playoff games. All coaches are to rate the next day. However, it is usually the coach who is penalized or who lost a game who typically rates, and rates you for that one call rather than the whole game. This past year we had two officials going for promotion, and they were somewhat tentative to throw certain flags because of the effect they knew it would have on their ratings and chances for promotion.playoff games.
Our wing officials ask the coaches which three are allowed in the box for the game, and advise the coaches they are in control of the sideline. The opposing coach will keep remindeing the opposite wing that his partner is letting the other coach on the field during the game. So, the wings both us the out-of-sight theory as well well that his sideline, this is mine.
Really do not know if there is a good solution when the coaches are you evaluators.

I thank the good Lord, every Friday night, that I don't have to worry about a coach evalauting me or having input on my rating. Personally, I think it's one of the most stupid things I've ever heard of. JMHO. You guys certainly have my sympathy, that you have to put up with that.

It is a leftover from the period of lords and serfs and the officials are the serfs.

Just last night in a three-man JH game one of the officials is working for promotion. On the side of the field opposite him a tackle is made where the player initiates in bounds and carries the play out of bounds. Perfectly legal. One of the coaches goes ballistic, grabs the ball and flings onto the field.

Linen time! Yellow linen time!

Now the official who is looking for promotion is in trouble because the two officials who don't need the rating have just penalized a coach albeit for a good reason.

See NFHS 9-8-1i
 

BBR
Coaches on the field IS in the Rule book and it IS 15 yards. 9-8-1-i
9-8-1...No coach, substitute, trainier, or other team attendant shall act in an unsportsmanlike manner once the officials assume authority for the contest.
Example are, but not limited to:
i. Being on the field except as a substitute or replaced player.
UC-15 YARDS

Also see support in: CASEBOOK 9.8.1 SITUATION F

I concur with the others, it is becoming more and more of a problem again. Perhaps it is time to make it a POE again.
I feel for thoses of you that can't throw a flag due to a possible bad ratings from coaches. In Oregon we officially ended the coaches rating 2 years ago. Boy did we drink some beer that night!

Hope this helps

Ed,

I can't believe that a JH coach would have anything to say about an official's evaluation. Down here in the south the only coach that got to evaluate (an internal one by the Association and longer done) was a varsity coach. Anybody less than that didn't get the time of day with regard to officials evaluations.

I am always patient with coaches regarding them being on the field. I know they get caught up in the game and lose track of where they are. However, when the coach tells me I am to worried about the sideline and not the game that is when the request stops and next time it is a sideline warning then 5 yards, then 15, usually doesn't get that far though. Sideline warning gets his attention and they abide by the rule.

Believe it!

I submitted a proposal to the board a few years ago that evaluation for promotion should belong to varsity officials who may one day have to work with that official. That went nowhere.

The result of JH and JV coaches evaluations being used for promotion is, at best, a joke. JH coaches typically have as many as 40 to 50 players to control and you can only imagine how much time to look at officials. And JV is not a lot better. And, for the most part they don't even tape the games for review.

So when the official makes it to varsity and the varsity coach complains about performance, who promoted them? Your lower level coaches.

KWH,

What did you guys put in place of the coaches ratings? We seem to be stuck with them in our chapter as no one can think of a better solution. We really aren't able to sit a supervisor at all the games to rate guys, so the only fall back is the coaches, who, don't always rate (not high on their TO DO list) and sometimes rate inconsistently (unfairly?)

ABoselli;

We use ratings from our observers (retired officials that still want to be involved) and other members of the crew for that game.
Lower level officials are reviewed only by the other officials on the crew.
We also have three years of mandatory classroom training classes for our new officials: First year (2 hours a week), Second Year (1 hour per week) and Third year/ Transfer officials (1 hour per week). All new (1st thru third year) officials are evaluated on every game they work.
We used coaches evaluations for approximatly 20 years. We gave the coaches the evaluation cards in the pregame. In the last few years we got less than 25% returned and those were generally from losing coaches with a negative attitude,So our board elected to eliminate them.
Currently our commisioner makes all the decisions on game assinments, advancement and playoff assingments based on observations (by observers) and recommendations of peer officials.
Is it the best? Probably not! But it is working for us at this time.

We do the ratings of 1st through 3rd year guys by active (varsity) officials as well, it's the rating of the actives that gets sticky.

I'm afraid we wouldn't have enough retired, available guys to rate us, hence any ratings we would get might be anecdotal at best. We have a little over 100 officials in our chapter working 15-25 games (total varsity) each week in the leagues we service.

I'm glad to see, though, that somebody ridded themselves of the coach ratings dilema.

I think that folks are missing something here - safety. For all involved. If a play flows off the field on the sideline, you should have space. Without space, you have opposition players running into each other's team on the bench, mayhem and ugliness.

The best thing I ever did to get a coach to listen to me when I wanted space on the sideline was simply go where I was supposed to go on a turnover. I ran the head coach over, because he was on *my* sideline. He never bothered me again. If I had been tripped or knocked over, I'd have dinged him with an unsportsmanlike. (This was the team's first-ever game, so I didn't want to be a complete *******.)

Dave Gannaway came and spoke to our association several weeks ago and spoke a little about this topic. He stated that it isn't a RATING system, it is an EVALUATION system and that is why the wording for the system was changed this year. He said coaches can't be expected to know how well a crew performed, but coaches should be able to objectively decide if they would like to see officials at certain levels.

To me, ratings and evaluations are the same thing and changing the wording doesn't help matters.

I think we should get coaches completely out of the system. The question then is, "HOW?"

sideline warning
 

Tom Cook,

So you only officiate to get a big game in the tournament?
I'll flag a coach evertime hes on the field, it doesn't matter that hes going to evaluate me or not. My wingmen are taught to do their job, apply the rules and not worry about getting a bad evaluation for flagging a coach.

I would never let a coaches evaluation of me hold off on throwing a rag for a penalty. Thats like turning your back on a crime. If the coach is out on the field , talk to him, tell him hes going to be flagged. If he ignores you flag him. Last year I asked a coach twice to stay of the field, I was the linesmen in this three man jv game. He just wouldn't listen, the third time he backed into were I was standing on the sidelines. I pulled my flag and very calmly reached over his shoulder and dropped the flag in front of him.
Coaches evaluation HAHA who cares, if you're a good official you'll get work.

Coaches being too far out on the field was a problem for us too. What we did was if they were more than 5 yards out on the field between downs, then that team was charged a time out. If they don't have any time outs, then they were flagged for delay of game. If they are on the field during a play, we called illegal participation on bench. We were very lenient with this rule and always issued a warning before we made a call but it gets their attention and when we penalize them or charge them a time out, they don't argue.

I'm confused...
 

If you're going to strictly enforce keeping coaches off the field, why not use the penalties in the actual rules instead of making up this "timeout/delay of game" procedure??

Re: I'm confused...
 

In the youth league I officiate, the timeliness of the game has also been a big concern of everyone involved. The games generally run longer than the 1 hour allotted time which throws the start times off for the following 6 or 7 games. If we have to blow our whistle to stop the game and clock to tell a coach who is not suppose to be on the field to get off, then it slows the game down. Furthermore, the coaches would rather be charged a time out instead of penalized for yardage. It was a win-win situation as far as we were concerned so we modified the rule accordingly.

One hour per game? How long are the quarters? 8 minutes?

No wonder you've worked so many. I've had craps that last longer than one of your games.

[Edited by ABoselli on Dec 5th, 2002 at 08:00 PM]

Of course!!
 

Obviously they'd rather be charged a timeout rather than be penalized yardage.

That's why when you penalize them yardage they actually stay off the field!

Sounds like you have the inmates running the asylum.

One-hour games are a bit short. Do you have special timing rules too? Our youth games typically run about 1:45. Games start every 2 hours.

ABosselli,

I agree with you. I have had craps that take longer also.

Derock,
Why are you blowing the whistle and stoping the clock to tell a coach to get off the field? Its not an officials time out, throw the rag if they don't want to listen after a warning.

Also go over this with the coaches in pre game instructions. Believe me when I walk on the field before a Game most coaches know what im going to say to them anyway. They have had me in the past.
Good Luck

I have a solution that works!!!
 

This past season, I was the Line Judge during a JV game. We have a new coach at this High School, and he gets a bit excited during the game, stepping out onto the field to encourage his players. I accidently solved this problem....

The visiting team was on offense. This coach was kneeling along the sideline, about a yard onto the field, shouting encouragement to the defense. A pass was thrown down my sideline and I quickly moved along the sideline to cover, and accidently hit the coach in the side of the head with the back of my left hand. I hit him hard enough that he fell backwards off the field. I'd never even seen him, but smacked him hard enough to knock him off his feet.

He was never on the field during a play again! I officiated the same team later on in the season, as the Umpire, and he still wasn't on the field. It wasn't intentional, but it sure worked!!!! I think the smack in the side of the head made him realize why that rule is in the rulebook!