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SamG Wed Oct 13, 2010 04:28pm

Something else I thought of...

If A is leading as time is running out (whether by 1 or by 50) is there really a reason to run a 'fake kneel'? I'm thinking A's coach will be keeping up with how many TO's team B has, how much time on the clock, etc.

The more appropriate situation would be a TIED game, less than a minute to go. THEN a coach may try a fake... team B thinks A is playing for OT & relaxes, A runs the fake and gets the score/big gain to set up the score.

Which still leads to my question about team B players notice the official ISN'T saying A is taking a knee = A has a play on.

SamG Wed Oct 13, 2010 04:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 696220)
Under NCAA rules it is not illegal per se but simulating taking a knee causes the ball to become dead.

At what point is the simulation? Victory formation, snap, QB takes two steps back and... if he ducks is that the simulation? I'm not trying to be an a--, I really want to know.

MD Longhorn Wed Oct 13, 2010 04:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamG (Post 696221)
Something else I thought of...

If A is leading as time is running out (whether by 1 or by 50) is there really a reason to run a 'fake kneel'? I'm thinking A's coach will be keeping up with how many TO's team B has, how much time on the clock, etc.

The more appropriate situation would be a TIED game, less than a minute to go. THEN a coach may try a fake... team B thinks A is playing for OT & relaxes, A runs the fake and gets the score/big gain to set up the score.

Which still leads to my question about team B players notice the official ISN'T saying A is taking a knee = A has a play on.

I'll tell you EXACTLY how it happened ... or happens.

Team B is completely out of the playoffs. Team A needs to not only win, but win by 8 to win a tiebreaker to make the last slot of the playoffs. A is up by 4 with 30 seconds to go on the B 20. A lines up in victory (and had practiced this all week for EXACTLY this scenario). QB pretends to bobble snap. TE takes one firm step at the snap and pretends to give up on the play, then darts to the right corner as QB throws him the ball - no one on the defense moved.

That one actually happened - I was not there, but we ALL heard about it.

Another plausible scenario would be next year when Team B above plays Team A, and is up by 20 ... and wants payback.

And a far more common possibility would be from your own 40-ish at the end of the HALF. Act like you're taking your 6 pt lead to the locker room, lineup in victory and fake it. This one ACTUALLY happened in the Texas Tech v. Texas game 2 years ago. Unfortunately Mike Leach was unaware that if his QB went toward the ground as if taking a knee, the ball was dead in NCAA. If he'd not have acted as if he was going down, he would have caught Texas completely unaware.

MD Longhorn Wed Oct 13, 2010 04:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamG (Post 696222)
At what point is the simulation? Victory formation, snap, QB takes two steps back and... if he ducks is that the simulation? I'm not trying to be an a--, I really want to know.

Yes... any motion toward the ground in a knee situation or formation is what we're told to kill.

jemiller Wed Oct 13, 2010 06:16pm

The offensive QB tells us, and we inform the opposing team. I actually position myself very close to the LOS to prevent any issues. They have to make an accurate and complete snap, but once it is done the QB goes to the knee and the play is over. JIM

GoodwillRef Thu Oct 14, 2010 07:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 696226)
I'll tell you EXACTLY how it happened ... or happens.

Team B is completely out of the playoffs. Team A needs to not only win, but win by 8 to win a tiebreaker to make the last slot of the playoffs. A is up by 4 with 30 seconds to go on the B 20. A lines up in victory (and had practiced this all week for EXACTLY this scenario). QB pretends to bobble snap. TE takes one firm step at the snap and pretends to give up on the play, then darts to the right corner as QB throws him the ball - no one on the defense moved.

That one actually happened - I was not there, but we ALL heard about it.

Another plausible scenario would be next year when Team B above plays Team A, and is up by 20 ... and wants payback.

And a far more common possibility would be from your own 40-ish at the end of the HALF. Act like you're taking your 6 pt lead to the locker room, lineup in victory and fake it. This one ACTUALLY happened in the Texas Tech v. Texas game 2 years ago. Unfortunately Mike Leach was unaware that if his QB went toward the ground as if taking a knee, the ball was dead in NCAA. If he'd not have acted as if he was going down, he would have caught Texas completely unaware.


The main problem here is that states have points scored as a tiebreaker for making the playoffs...this breeds blowing teams out and poor sportsmanship.

MD Longhorn Thu Oct 14, 2010 09:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 696291)
The main problem here is that states have points scored as a tiebreaker for making the playoffs...this breeds blowing teams out and poor sportsmanship.

Maybe true... do you have a better suggestion?

SamG Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 696306)
Maybe true... do you have a better suggestion?

Depending on the schedule/# of teams:

#1
Head to head
#2
Vs. Common opponents
#3
Conference pts ALLOWED (lower wins)
#4
Coin flip

GoodwillRef Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 696306)
Maybe true... do you have a better suggestion?

Points given up...defense.

We don't use a point system in WI.

MD Longhorn Thu Oct 14, 2010 01:17pm

Points allowed can have exactly the same effect if the team you're trying to climb ahead of is the one you are playing. I do admit it's BETTER, but it doesn't get rid of the issue.


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