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john_faz Tue Sep 28, 2010 05:25pm

Last Timed Down
 
K punts with 4 seconds left on the clock in the first half. During the return, the face mask of R45 is grabbed and turned at R's 30 and he runs another 5 yards to the 35. The facemask personal foul is called and we spot the ball at the 50 yard line. Do we give R one untimed down at the fifty to run a play from scrimmage?

MD Longhorn Tue Sep 28, 2010 05:35pm

Of course. Why wouldn't you. This is a textbook example of why the rules give another down on a penalty like this.

Were it not the case, K could foul all it wanted to prevent a TD, with no penalty.

whitehat Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:58pm

Here is another situation that prompted a fan/friend to call me last week. I was not working the game but...here it is:
As time runs out A runs ball and is downed close to goal line but doesn't score. foul by B during the live ball. untimed down is ruled. A comes to line, and false starts. 5 yards enforced against A. Even though they false started the untimed down from the previous live ball had not been run yet, so the untimed down is still run after the false start by A. needless to say, A scores, B loses and the fan was a fan of B and wanted to know why A got to run the play even after their false start. :mad: I explained that is was because the false start was a dead ball foul and the untimed down had not yet been run yet...

unless I am missing something had I been the R this is what I would have ruled as well.

JugglingReferee Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:13pm

Canadian Ruling
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by john_faz (Post 694158)
K punts with 4 seconds left on the clock in the first half. During the return, the face mask of R45 is grabbed and turned at R's 30 and he runs another 5 yards to the 35. The facemask personal foul is called and we spot the ball at the 50 yard line. Do we give R one untimed down at the fifty to run a play from scrimmage?

CANADIAN RULING:

This is a UR foul. B can apply the penalty at the end of the play, thereby extending this quarter. Or, they can choose to enforce the penalty at the beginning of the next quarter. If the play occurred at the end of the 4th quarter, they can enforce in the first inning of overtime.

JugglingReferee Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:15pm

Canadian Ruling
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by whitehat (Post 694207)
Here is another situation that prompted a fan/friend to call me last week. I was not working the game but...here it is:
As time runs out A runs ball and is downed close to goal line but doesn't score. foul by B during the live ball. untimed down is ruled. A comes to line, and false starts. 5 yards enforced against A. Even though they false started the untimed down from the previous live ball had not been run yet, so the untimed down is still run after the false start by A. needless to say, A scores, B loses and the fan was a fan of B and wanted to know why A got to run the play even after their false start. :mad: I explained that is was because the false start was a dead ball foul and the untimed down had not yet been run yet...

unless I am missing something had I been the R this is what I would have ruled as well.

CANADIAN RULING:

We're still giving A an untimed down too. However, the B foul could have a different enforcement spot.

MD Longhorn Wed Sep 29, 2010 09:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitehat (Post 694207)
Here is another situation that prompted a fan/friend to call me last week. I was not working the game but...here it is:
As time runs out A runs ball and is downed close to goal line but doesn't score. foul by B during the live ball. untimed down is ruled. A comes to line, and false starts. 5 yards enforced against A. Even though they false started the untimed down from the previous live ball had not been run yet, so the untimed down is still run after the false start by A. needless to say, A scores, B loses and the fan was a fan of B and wanted to know why A got to run the play even after their false start. :mad: I explained that is was because the false start was a dead ball foul and the untimed down had not yet been run yet...

unless I am missing something had I been the R this is what I would have ruled as well.

Absolutely.

JRutledge Wed Sep 29, 2010 09:45am

Think of it this way. About the only way you will not run an untimed down, is when a team fouls and the penalty has a LOD component to the enforcement. Or it is the last play of regulation and they cannot have the option to enforce the penalty on the kickoff (e.g. on a TD play).

Peace

The Roamin' Umpire Thu Sep 30, 2010 08:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 694208)
CANADIAN RULING:

This is a UR foul. B can apply the penalty at the end of the play, thereby extending this quarter. Or, they can choose to enforce the penalty at the beginning of the next quarter. If the play occurred at the end of the 4th quarter, they can enforce in the first inning of overtime.

Please tell me your rulebook doesn't actually call them innings...

Rich Thu Sep 30, 2010 09:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Roamin' Umpire (Post 694483)
Please tell me your rulebook doesn't actually call them innings...

Our overtime procedure does too (we're in Wisconsin).

JugglingReferee Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Roamin' Umpire (Post 694483)
Please tell me your rulebook doesn't actually call them innings...

It doesn't, but "inning" is the best way to describe the OT procedure.

ppaltice Fri Oct 01, 2010 08:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 694495)
It doesn't, but "inning" is the best way to describe the OT procedure.

Originally (1870s) the periods were called innings. Probably because baseball had an established set of rules (from the 1850s) and football was trying to emulate baseball's nationalized rule set.

Even so, NFHS's and NCAA's overtime rules are inning based, whether we call it that or not.


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