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-   -   Scrimmage kick play (https://forum.officiating.com/football/58648-scrimmage-kick-play.html)

DrMooreReferee Wed Jul 21, 2010 09:26pm

Scrimmage kick play
 
K's ball 4th and 5 from the 50. K's punt sails over the head of the returner R22 and comes to a complete stop at R's 3 yardline. R22 races back to get the ball, picks it up and his momentum carries him into his own endzone where he slips and falls down.


Ruling???

mbyron Thu Jul 22, 2010 08:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee (Post 686235)
K's ball 4th and 5 from the 50. K's punt sails over the head of the returner R22 and comes to a complete stop at R's 3 yardline. R22 races back to get the ball, picks it up and his momentum carries him into his own endzone where he slips and falls down.


Ruling???

No matter what, R ball 1/10 from the R3.

If R22 is not near the ball, the kick ends and the ball is dead when the ball comes to rest and no player is attempting to recover it (6-2-7 and 4-2-2.e.2). R ball 1/10 from the R3.

If R22 is near the ball and retrieves the ball, the momentum exception applies (8-5-2.a EXCEPTION). R ball 1/10 from the end of the kick, which is the R3.

jemiller Thu Jul 22, 2010 04:19pm

If the returner takes it into the EZ, when the ball has come to rest, he has put it in there and the kick has ended. Thus I do not believe that momentum would have an effect. It is a safety...In my opinion, Jim

mbyron Thu Jul 22, 2010 04:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jemiller (Post 686322)
If the returner takes it into the EZ, when the ball has come to rest, he has put it in there and the kick has ended. Thus I do not believe that momentum would have an effect. It is a safety...In my opinion, Jim

Perhaps you're not familiar with how the "momentum exception" works. Here's the rule (edited to omit irrelevant possibilities):

8-5-2.a
EXCEPTION: When ... an R player catches or
recovers a scrimmage kick ... between his 5-yard line and the goal line, and
his original momentum carries him into the end zone where the ball is declared dead
in his team’s possession ... the ball belongs to the team in possession at the spot
where ... the kick was caught or recovered
.

The OP specified that the R22's momentum carried him from the R3 into the EZ, and the ball was subsequently declared dead. Thus the play meets all of the criteria specified in the exception, so it's R's ball where R22 recovered the kick (the R3).

Notice that whether the ball is at rest is irrelevant to assessing the momentum exception.

Welpe Thu Jul 22, 2010 05:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jemiller (Post 686322)
If the returner takes it into the EZ...he has put it in there and the kick has ended.

Once the loose ball has been possessed, the player carrying the ball into the endzone is the force that has put the ball there. It doesn't matter what the ball was doing before that. Under normal circumstances this would be a safety because the B player carried the ball into the endzone and was downed. It is not a safety due to the momentum exception.

hutsunuwu84 Fri Jul 23, 2010 02:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 686339)
Once the loose ball has been possessed, the player carrying the ball into the endzone is the force that has put the ball there. It doesn't matter what the ball was doing before that. Under normal circumstances this would be a safety because the B player carried the ball into the endzone and was downed. It is not a safety due to the momentum exception.

Its B's ball 1/10 from B's 3 yard line.

As for your assumption that it would have normally been a safety, I am confused on how you would reach that assumption. Explain please.

AUgrad2006 Fri Jul 23, 2010 03:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hutsunuwu84 (Post 686446)
Its B's ball 1/10 from B's 3 yard line.

As for your assumption that it would have normally been a safety, I am confused on how you would reach that assumption. Explain please.

I think he just meant that if the momentum exception did not apply, it would be a safety because the runner carried the ball from the field of play into his own end zone. However the momentum exception does apply so that's the appropriate ruling in this situation.

Welpe Fri Jul 23, 2010 08:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUgrad2006 (Post 686452)
I think he just meant that if the momentum exception did not apply, it would be a safety because the runner carried the ball from the field of play into his own end zone. However the momentum exception does apply so that's the appropriate ruling in this situation.

Precisely. Without the momentum exception, the result of this play is a safety.

The Roamin' Umpire Sat Jul 24, 2010 08:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jemiller (Post 686322)
If the returner takes it into the EZ, when the ball has come to rest, he has put it in there and the kick has ended.

:eek:
Kicks end in only two ways: player possession or dead ball. If the returner is picking up a live ball, then it's still a kick, and momentum will apply.

JugglingReferee Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:26am

Canadian Ruling
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee (Post 686235)
K's ball 4th and 5 from the 50. K's punt sails over the head of the returner R22 and comes to a complete stop at R's 3 yardline. R22 races back to get the ball, picks it up and his momentum carries him into his own endzone where he slips and falls down.


Ruling???

CANADIAN RULING:

Safety touch.


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