Time-out after a delay of game.

[Mike Simonds]

Last Saturday, offense was getting set, noticed that they only had 10 men on the field. There are 2 things that happened that I would like to talk about:

1. Substitute comes on field and lines up at split end. He is in the formation but never came within 15 yards of the huddle as required by rule. Would this be a live ball foul for illegal participation or a dead ball foul for illegal substitution?

2. Offense calls a timeout just after the 25 second clock runs out. Before back judge communicates penalty with referee, referee grants timeout request to team A. Both teams jog to coaches for sideline conference. Back judge tells referee about the delay of game foul. By now the timeouts are already half over. Referee decides to enforce penalty and charge the timeout. Is this the proper thing to do? Or should the referee have not charged the timeout and called the teams back to the field?

Thanks for your help on this!

[Theisey]

Situation 1: The incoming player needs to be within 15 yards of the BALL after the ball is ready for play, not the huddle.
In any event, this is a live-ball foul (S19) the NF would call Illegal Procedure.

Situation 2: I'm assuming that there was no visual 25 second clock, therefore the BJ should have tossed the flag HIGH into the air while blowing the whistle loudly to kill the play and then blowing the whistle at least times to get the Refs attention. The Ref will have either seen a flag or heard the whistles by then and not granted any timeout until the play was sorted out. The BJ has to hustle in to communicate the problem. The Ref should have a pretty good idea that the flag is for a delay.

If it was that close, the TO should be granted and the DELAY waved off. The Ref and the U and possibly the other officials have to determine what came first. You can't grant them a TO and hit them up for a delay at the same time. We have to use our eyes and ears on this one and make a decision.

If the officials decide the Delay was what really happened, then the Ref should ask if the team still wants a TO. Otherwise, as I said, wave the flag off and grant the TO.

[Edited by Theisey on Sep 4th, 2002 at 07:02 PM]

[Ed Hickland]

Situation 2...You can't penalize a team twice for the same offense. I would have listened to the BJ and determined the delay was first. Then not charged the timeout.

You have to use some discretion because in reality the lack of aggressive action by the BJ caused the team to unnecessarily take the timeout.

Also, as a referee I would talk to the BJ on being demonstrative on throwing the flag and making sure he has alerted the referee when a delay occurs.

[sportswriter]

Originally posted by Mike Simonds
Offense calls a timeout just after the 25 second clock runs out.

The other comments are reasonable, esp with regards to communication.

I had a situation today where an offensive player calls a time-out. In Canadian rules, that's not a call that can be changed. However, the Umpire called an illegal procedure for an O-lineman breaking a three-point stance - and the he wasn't the guy calling the time out - before the time out call was made.

Ergo, illegal procedure on the offense, and offense gets the time out they wanted.

[Tom Cook]

I think that in Mike's Sit. 1 our association would call an illegal substitution foul as soon as it becomes obvious that the wideout is not going to move towards the ball. The offending coaches are going to be upset with their players anyway so it's a pretty easy sell.

In Sit. #2 I think that the referee has to rule wether the timeout came first or the delay. If he called the timeout before he saw the BJ throw the flag, it's a timeout. I sure don't think that there should have been both a foul and a timeout.