California rules

[refjef40]

This is just my third season of youth football.There are acouple of questions in the Cal. nfhs study guide I can't figure out.If anyone has the time I would appreciate the answers with rule references.True or false a team can only spike the ball to stop the clock if they are in "T" formation(must take hand to hand snap).2.The momentum rule between the five yard line and goal line is only in force for forward passes and kicks.3.During a successful 2 point try, A8 is guilty of offensive P.I. The try is over, no point and A kicks off at the 40.
Thanks for your help.

[nvfoa15]

refjet40,

I'm not sure what your questions are but here's my two cents worth.

1. Rule 7-5-2d Exception allows for the conservation of time by "spiking" the ball. A player must be in position to recieve a hand-to-hand snap (no shotgun) for this to be legal. The rest of the players can be anywhere they want as long as the 7 man line rule is accounted for,

2. Rule 8-5-2a Exception defines the momentum rule. This year the rules committee added backward passes and fumbles to the definition. The porpose of this rule is not to penalize the defense for a great play by having A score a safety (B would be responsible for the ball going into its EZ and being downed there).

3. Rule 10-5-3 and 8-3-4 straight forward and self explanitory.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by refjef40
...a team can only spike the ball to stop the clock if they are in "T" formation(must take hand to hand snap).

True. I'm not sure why they threw the T formation bit in there, but a hand to hand snap is required.

2.The momentum rule between the five yard line and goal line is only in force for forward passes and kicks.

False. It also applies to fumbles and backward passes caught in flight.

3.During a successful 2 point try, A8 is guilty of offensive P.I. The try is over, no point and A kicks off at the 40.

False. The kick off would be from the 25.

[nvfoa15]

BBR,

I disagree with you on #3!

[BktBallRef]

Well, that's fine. But don't just disagree with me. Tell me why. Nobody learns anything if you don't tell us why.

[Mike Simonds]

BBR, if you check rule 10, loss of down fouls by the offense on try attempts are not enforced on the kick-off. No points, no replay and K kicks off from the 40. The rule only applies to fouls by the defense on successful try attempts.

Sorry, I don't have the rule books available. But I will get back to you with a rule reference.

And just a quick observation on the momentum rule (for discussion purposes only; it was not addressed by RJ40 in his question but its worth talking about): it applies only to catches, not recoveries. So if that kick was grounded and R recovers it between his 5 and the goal line and his momemtum carries him into his endzone, the momentum exception is not in effect. Its a safety if the ball becomes dead in B's possession (team or player) behind the goal line.

[Edited by Mike Simonds on Aug 7th, 2002 at 11:17 PM]

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mike Simonds
BBR, if you check rule 10, loss of down fouls by the offense on try attempts are not enforced on the kick-off. No points, no replay and K kicks off from the 40. The rule only applies to fouls by the defense on successful try attempts.

And I understand that. I just didn't give the question a lot of thought.

However, after having gone back and reading the rule, it really doesn't address the yardage markoff for this foul. It simply says, "If during a successful try, a loss of down foul by A occurs, there is no score and no replay." It actually doesn't say that the yardage isn't marked off.

So, if we're now marking off fouls against the defense on a try, why are we marking them off in a similiar sitch when they are on the offense?

[Theisey]

Maybe the words are not just as we would like (and could be improved), but the fact of the matter is that the yardage portion of LOD fouls by Team-A on a TRY down are not carried over. Any score is cancelled, the TRY is over.

Been that way for some time and I doubt we will see any carry over fouls against Team-A in the near future unless NF deems that live ball PI type fouls should carry over.

[Gregg U]

If A fouls and the try is good, then B would more than likely take the penalty and make A replay.
If A fouls and the try is no good, then B would decline the penalty and the try would be unsuccessful.
In the case of loss of down, it is all over.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Theisey
Maybe the words are not just as we would like (and could be improved), ...

You're kidding! The Fed not clear on something?

[refjef40]

I just wanted to thank everybody who helped me out.Of my three sports basketball,softball and football this is my weakest so I need all the help I can get!

[nvfoa15]

Sorry BBR for not elaborating on my comment. I have been following your comments on several threads and just figured you had a "brain fart" and needed a little prodding.

[BktBallRef]

Nah, just old age creeping in.

[Kelvin green]

First it's rule 8-3-4 that states "If during a succeesful try, a loss of down foul by A occurs there is no score and there is no replay"

Second 8-3-6 states if during unsuccesful try a foul occurs by A the penalty is obviously declined the results stand and the penalty is declined and there is no replay

Both of these sections never mention suceeding spot the revised Article 5 mentions specifically suceeding spots.

Here would be my approach.

The implication of 8-3-4 is that a team will accept the penalty... (The theory that no body want to have points put up on the board) and there is no score, you dont replay because they lost the down for the try. Make sense to me...

But here is where I have a little bit of concern Under the new rules if B fouls they have the penalty enforced on the suceeding spot, and the points still score...why not let B have the same chance if A fouls. Why is this penalty now automatically accepted, they took out the automatic accptance of a TD last year... Depending on score I could see B letting a team have the two points if it meant moving the ball back 15 yards on a kick to get better field position. So there is no as much consistency as there ought to be. so under the new rules A has three options B has two. But B always just has two options accept or decline so that is consistent but maybe B should have the third option of giving them the points and taking the yardage...

I guess NF feels that the non scoring is the penalty for a foul by the offense but that there is no yardage. So once the penalty is automatically accepted the try is over.

Under current rule I would agree there is o suceeding spot penalty

[Larry Gonski]

Good answer!