kick off
 

on a free kick, R blocks K below the waist at the 50 yard and then the ball goes past the goal line for a touchback. where is the penalty enforced from? i would say 15 yards previous spot and re-kick. is this correct?

Rule 10-4
ART. 5 . . . The basic spot is the succeeding spot:
a. For an unsportsmanlike foul.
b. For a dead-ball foul.
c. For a nonplayer foul.
d. When the final result is a touchback

Would this not be trumped by 10-4-2?
10-4-2 ... The basic spot is the previous spot:
b. For a foul that occurs during a loose ball play as defined in 10-3-1.

10-3-1 ... A loose ball play is action during:
a. A free or scrimmage kick, other than those defined in 2-33-1a

i would say loose ball, rekick at R45 if accepted.

ump 33-

So if this had been a dead ball personal foul instead of live ball BBW and the kick entered the EZ for a touchback, would you make K rekick since it was a loose ball play or would you enforce from the succeeding spot?

I don't know. Does a loose ball play include action which occurs after the ball becomes dead?:rolleyes:

I agree. This is a loose ball play and all fouls during loose ball plays (except non-player and unsportsmanlike) are enforced from the previous spot.

HLin NC -

2-41-1 ... The basic spot is a point of reference for penalty enforcement. It is the previous spot for a loose-ball play unless the only accepted penalities meet the requirements of a PSK foul and the end of the run for a running play.

If this was scrimage kick and R blocks K below the waist at the line of scrimmage after which the ball/kick enters the endzone (touchback), would you use 10-4-5b and enforce from the suceeding spot? How does this differ from the OP other than a Free Kick versus a Scrimmage Kick?

Any foul occurring before the ball crosses the goal line is during a loose ball play and will be enforced from the previous spot, so you march off 15 yards against R and rekick from the R-45. If the foul happens after crossing the goal line then you march it off from the succeeding spot making it 1/10 from the R-10.

ART. 7 . . . A free kick is not repeated unless:
a. A foul occurs prior to a change of possession and the penalty acceptance
requires a replay of the down.b. There is a double foul.
c. There is an inadvertent whistle during the kick.

It doesn't, ALL fouls that occur during either a free, or scrimmage, kick are loose ball fouls, with the exception of PSK fouls (which only apply during scrimmage kicks).

In the original question, the offended teams choice would be to accept the penalty and replay the down after enforcing a 15 yard penalty from the previous spot, or accept the result of the play, which would be a touchback.

If the foul had been a dead ball foul enforcement would be from the succeeding spot, which would be the R 20 yard line, following the touchback. Rekick would not be an option.

I agree with AJMC. Nuff said, Jim

I know I'm late to this party, but I had this exact situation occur earlier this season (the second time I ever worked as R). My umpire and I on the field came up with this resulting in a rekick, since it happened during the looseball play. I brought it up in my class the following week, and the class agreed that it's a rekick.

Wow!!!
 

Holy cow, you guys think of the good ones. Looks like there are a lot of ways to interpret this.

Seems to me the question is whether 10-4d trumps 10-4-2b or vice versa. They conflict, so which one wins?? By rule there can not be a play that results in a touchback that is not a loose ball play (although I realize 10-3-1 only speaks of kicks). Any non-loose ball play in A/K's end zone must be a safety.

Just some more fodder for the conversation. I'm not suggesting anyone is right or wrong.

A snaps at the 50. A24 runs to B's 45 yard line and fumbles, B50 pick up the ball and runs to the A 2 yard line, fumbles and the ball rolls forward and goes out of bounds beyond the goal line. This is a safety?:confused:

This free kick enforcement isn't hard. It is a loose ball play until a running play starts. Fouls during the loose ball play are enforced from the previous spot.

There has been a lot of grief lately over rule 10-4-5d and I believe it comes from people reading into the rule.

10-4-5d is there to clarify what the enforcement should be if team A commits a foul during a running play by B that results in a touchback. If A1 throws a pass into B's end zone where B1 intercepts the pass, and B1 is subsequently brought down by the facemask in the end zone, the face mask penalty will be enforced from the succeeding spot, not the end of the run. If B1 chose to run out of the end zone and is brought down by the face mask at the B 2 yard line, the foul would be enforced from the end of the run and it would be first and 10 for B from the 17 yard line.

ABO is meant to be kept simple, don't read things into it. Just answer these questions. What foul was committed? Who committed the foul? When did the foul occur (Loose-ball, running play, which team was in possession)? Where was the foul committed?

10-4-5d isn't a special exception, it just clarifies that for fouls by A or B, the basic spot is the succeeding spot when the foul was committed with B in possession and the play would otherwise result in a touchback.