Fumbles on Extra Point Play in NFHS (Chicago story)

[Reffing Rev.]

Originally Posted by LDUB

No. Anyone can recover any fumble. Fumbles by A which go out of bounds belong to A where it went out.

Unless it were to go out of bounds in B's end zone, then it belongs to B at the 20. If the force is still the fumble or any other new force by A then it's a touchback, if the force is a new force by B then it's a safety, either way B's ball at the 20.

Ball out of bounds in A's end zone then A's ball at the 20. A's force then safety and they're kicking from the 20, B's force then touchback and they're snapping from the 20.

So its not quite accurate to say that fumbles by A which go out of bounds belong to A where they went out...You could say fumbles by A which go out of bounds between the goal lines belong to A where it went out.

Sounds like the losing team have been watching too many Sunday afternoons.

[john_faz]

If the Officials judged that the QB intentionally fumbled the ball forward could they have ruled an illegal forward pass? Assuming he was past the LOS.

That would be a loss of down and the game would be over. Any thoughts?

[Bullycon]

Originally Posted by john_faz

If the Officials judged that the QB intentionally fumbled the ball forward could they have ruled an illegal forward pass? Assuming he was past the LOS.

That would be a loss of down and the game would be over. Any thoughts?

Yes, they could have.

Also, regardless of whether it was legal or illegal, if it had been ruled a forward pass, it would have been incomplete. Thus, the try is no good, penalty or no.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by john_faz

If the Officials judged that the QB intentionally fumbled the ball forward could they have ruled an illegal forward pass? Assuming he was past the LOS.

That would be a loss of down and the game would be over. Any thoughts?

The ball looked to be thrown out of the center of the pile. Unless the U or the BJ saw this, there's no way the crew is going to get it.

(And since it hit the ground, it would also be an incomplete pass that would kill the clock and the conversion would be no good.)

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by john_faz

If the Officials judged that the QB intentionally fumbled the ball forward could they have ruled an illegal forward pass? Assuming he was past the LOS.

That would be a loss of down and the game would be over. Any thoughts?

Look at the definitions of "pass" and "fumble". "Fumble" is defined by exclusion, while "pass" has certain criteria. It's apparently possible to fumble intentionally without its being a pass. Has Fed adopted any provision to prevent gain of some sort of advantage in such cases? (Not that I know of, but I'm frequently out of date.)

[kdf5]

A pass is just that - throwing a ball and a forward pass is thrown with its initial direction forward. There is nothing in NF to prevent an intentional fumble or specifies who can or can't recover it. If it's thrown forward illegally then it's incomplete when it hits the ground and if it was an IFP and flagged then the try is over and no replay.

[Forksref]

On a normal scrimmage play we had an illegal forward handoff. The QB was faking a handoff to the running back and this coach teaches that they jointly possess it for a while and the QB then decides if he keeps it or hands it off. Unfortunately, he didn't make his decision until they were both beyond the LOS and the runner was in front of the QB. The handoff was made and we flagged it for illegal handing. 5 yds and LOD enforced under the all-but-one principle.

I don't think I've ever called that or see that before.

[FTVMartin]

If you rule that it was fumbled on purpose you could use the planned loose-ball play rule that prevents an intentional fumble. THat would be hard to call if it comes out of a pile.