Illegal motion
 

So I'm working a JV last night and I have two wide receivers to my side, both on the line. The widest one turns to me and asks if he's off the line, so I told him, "No, you're on the line, you need to scoot back." As he's taking a few steps backwards, the ball is snapped. Of course, this happened right in front of the defense's sideline and their coach heard the entire thing, so he starts going nuts, saying it was a false start or illegal motion or something. I kept officiating, and the other wide receiver on my side, the one that was closer to the LOS and on the line, ended up catching a twenty yard pass and running another ten. The coach is screaming and yelling at me the entire play. I didn't know what to do, so I told him it was my fault the kid was moving and he didn't end up having any effect on the play...he just ended up running five yards downfield and stopping. His argument was that the play never should've happened. They were down like 28-0 at this point by the way, almost at the end of the first half, so the coach was in a bad mood already.

So to appease him, I called time-out and went out and explained to my WH and U what was going on. They said since the widest receiver was moving backwards at the snap, it was not a false start and not illegal motion. The WH went over to explain it to the coach and then he starts complaining that the inner receiver went downfield illegally...but he wasn't covered up at the snap because the widest receiver had moved back by then. The coach wasn't listening by then, he was so mad.

You should have stopped with, you are on. That is all the info you should give a kid in this situation. Don't coach just officiate.

Your WH and U need to get in the book a little more. For his motion to be legal when he starts on the line, he has to establish himself as a back by resetting or being 5 yards or more behind the LOS at the snap [7-2-7]. Based on your description it doesn't sound like he was 5+ deep.

That said - there's no way I'm flagging false start or motion when I'm moving a receiver unless there is an advantage gained.

I agree with bigjohn...scary as that might be. :eek:


I agree. Technically this motion is not legal however I'm letting this one go.

Technically speaking, it was illegal motion if he was not at least five yards behind the line of scrimmage at the snap, since he was not a back when he started his motion. (7-3-7. Foul at the snap. Five yard penalty from previous spot.) It was certainly not a false start. The other receiver was not ineligible.

As bigjohn said, this is a great reason to never tell a player to move. How do you tell a player to move, and then flag him when he does? How do you not flag an obvious foul right in front of the opposing coach?

Best to avoid that dilemma altogether. During youth games, I have no reservations about giving instructions to get the players to line up correctly. By middle school, I don't have to do that. Shouldn't have to during JV, either. Tell them, "You're on," or, "You're off," and if they want to move, they can do so on their own. Then call fouls as appropriate.

Sounds like you did the right thing for the level of the game except for stopping the game and consulting with the R and U. Your explanation to the coach was adequate and he was probably just working you.

Don't coach...
 

This is only my second year, but I've heard that several times "Don't coach, just officiate"...didn't understand it until last night. I've also been working some youth football games on Saturdays (down to age 5-6) and in that league we do a lot of helping out with getting the kids lined up and stuff. I just need to realize that I need to switch gears at different levels.

I agree with this. Although I think in situations where you try to move a player "out of" a foul, it may be warranted.

Example: Telling a kid who lined up near the sideline before the ready to move inside the numbers. The flag is going to fly if he doesn't move, so telling him to move is giving him a chance to get legal. If doesn't get set before the snap, etc., is on him, as he was getting a flag anyway. Thoughts?

Yeah, I don't have a problem with it either. Not all JV games are created equal.

I wouldn't have flagged it either and would've shut the coach down sooner.

I don't work wings much anymore (I'm a WH on Fridays) but when I go out there I don't put up with a lot of yelling at the lower levels. The coaches need to spend more time coaching and less time worrying about us. It isn't the NFL or even HS varsity.

I get real tired at the JV and V level of telling them their on or off - they should know that if I punch into backfield they are off and be able to look down the line of scrimmage to see if they are on or encroaching. Thoughts?

I agree. Get them back on task.

how to shut a coach down?
 

OK, how do you "shut a coach down"? I wasn't really too confident that I hadn't blown the call, so it would've be hard to argue with him, but in the future, what do you say to a coach who is going nuts like that? He was a relatively young coach...probably in his late 20s...they seem to be the worst from what I've seen.

I would probably tell him something along the lines of... "Coach _____, I've listened to your concerns and explained my position. We're going to have to move on now." At that point, I'd ignore anything he says regarding the action on that play unless it rises to the level of earning him a USC foul.

My crew goes over this with the head coach in our pre-game meeting. We inform them that the punch into the backfield means "off the line" and anything else means "on the line" for the nearest receiver. We also explicitly mention that if a receiver asks "am I good?" we can't answer that question, because we don't know where they're supposed to be lined up.

When I was a wing (I'm an umpire now), I would respond with "yes" or "no" if the receiver explicitly asked "am I on/off?". If they just point or look at me, I don't say anything.

Don't ever argue or try to justify a call. Just shut down the bad behavior.

"I hear what you're saying. Move on." If he doesn't, a flag for USC will get his undivided attention.

I'm serious.

If the kid looks at me like he wants to know I tell him if he's off (with a punch) or on (with nothing). I've found those officials who are the most secretive end up with the most flags (game interrupters, IMO) for illegal formation.

If the kid doesn't look, I can't help it and will just throw a flag if needed.

What if he is in "No Man's Land"? Shouldn't you have a signal for that? Some officials will say on, off or neither. If they don't know what to do then, it is a coaching problem.

I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to putting the receiver in the 'legal' position if they're in "No Man's Land"... that is, if they're in a position that could be conceivably on the LOS or off the LOS, then I'd consider them to be off the LOS if they're potentially covering up another eligible receiver, and on the LOS if they need to be for the formation to be legal.

Nobody likes a ticky-tack penalty, especially an illegal formation call based on someone being lined up 2 inches 'wrong'.

Exactly!! I have never in 24 years flagged someone for being in No-Mans Land. I try to look at the eligibles coming to my side as they break the huddle and figure out who is gonna be on/off before they even get to the line.

Especially at the lower levels of play or on a terrible field, I can move myself a few inches to one side or the other to make a player legal, be it a question of receivers on/off the line, a D lineman lined up an inch in the NZ, etc.

If he's in no man's land, he's where he wants to be. This is HS football and I'm not out there to show everyone how smart I am.

No need to unnecessarily complicate things, the fact is there is no such place as "no man's land". The covering official is the sole decision maker whether the player is on the line, or he is not. Life is a lot simpler if you limit your options to "yes" or "no" and forget about "Maybe".

If the slot receiver is too close to the line, after the play I usually will talk to him (ask if he is supposed to be off the line and tell him to back up a step). If the wide out is a bit back and he is supposed to be on the line, he is on the line. Again, I may talk to him after the play, it depends on how close he is. I agree that I don't flag 'no man's land,' but I will try and correct it.

One thing I will say is that as you get a little more experience, you will have a good idea how the players are supposed to be lined up. That doesn't mean they won't make mistakes or you won't sometimes misread a formation, but you usually will know if those wide outs, flankers, slots, etc are supposed to be on the line or in the back field.

Maybe not officially defined however it is possible by rule to be either a lineman, a back or neither. There is only one player legally allowed to be there and that is a player in position to take a hand to hand snap. "No man's land" is this small area of limbo, that while many officials don't strictly enforce, does exist per the rules.

I have been in stripes since 1982, and when I am blessed to don a black hat occasionally instead of white I do help wide outs with a foot or a point and an occassional nod. But, I have always wondered why players simply cannot look inside at the ball and line up correctly; especially when they are on a yard "Line." How hard can that be?...I guess we have spoiled kids so much in every other area we might as well spoon feed them on the FB field too ;-)