Kicked PAT
 

When do you sound your whistle on a kicked PAT and WHO does it? (5-man)

R should blow the whistle and it his his determination as to when to blow it. If he knows the kick was not blocked, pretty easy to determine by a lack of sound of a block, he should blow it pretty quickly once it leaves his peripheral vision. If it is blocked then he can see the best when it is obvious the kick will not score if the ball comes back into the backfield.

Seems to be a crew-by-crew thing here. Some want the back judge to blow it. Some want the linesman to blow it.

On our crew the R takes the whistle on trys and the guys under the pipes take the whistle on FG's.

Canadian Mechanics
 

CANADIAN MECHANICS:

The convert is dead once the ball is kicked, so if the LS is:

• on or inside the B-10, the Referee sounds the whistle when the call is kicked and rules on the attempt,
• outside the B-10, the BU and HL under the uprights sound+signal once the ball is wide or good

Blowing the whistle as soon as the ball clears, while accepted in many locations is technically speaking an IW as the ball doesn't become dead until either the kick is successful or obviously unsuccessful.

Whenever an official is certain the PAT kick is unsuccessful he should blow the play dead. Whenever any official...R, BJ, whatever.

Slower on the whistle prevents mistakes. Especially in FED when their is a difference between PAT and FG. SLOW DOWN.

In Central Va. we have the BJ take the whistle.

And I couldn't possibly care if it's technically anything. I blow it (as the R) as soon as (well, about a second after) it's kicked. I just watched video of our first game and the timing couldn't be more natural.

I'm smart enough to not blow it on a FG. I'm too busy reminding everyone else to stay off their whistles.

Ina Alabama...

On PATs with kicks that cross the GL, the BJ (or SJ) blows the whistle. On PATs that are blocked and don't cross the GL, R blows the whistle.

On FGs, only the BJ (or SJ) blows the whistle for kicks that cross the GL.

BJ (5) or LJ (4) is the only whistle.

If you blow it when it is kicked it you are killing the ball and it cannot score.

But on a try, once it is kicked, it will be either be good or no good. K cannot pickup a blocked kick in advance. As the BJ, once I see the ball in the air I'm on the whistle to let the lineman know that the play is over. The Umpire begins talking to the players as well.

Is this an IW? Yes, but this is just the mechanic that our association uses. Once foot meets ball, nothing else can happen.

Our mechanic is basically the same, once the kicked ball clears the line, there's a whistle, the aim of which is to alert the line play that the down, for all practical purposes is over. On a PAT, when you come down to it, there's probably less than a full second that transpires between the ball passing over the line, and traveling through the uprights, so the IW risk is nonexistent.

I guess I find it odd that in most places in every situation except a try the generally accepted thing to do is be very slow on whistles. I understand the reasoning for that fast try whistle, I just don't accept the need.

Stunning how we count it EVERY time even though we blow the whistle.

Nobody has ever marked anyone down where I'm from for this.

If you use standard NFHS mechanics (5-man), the R whistles the play over if and only if the TRY is blocked. Otherwise, the BJ takes the whistle.

NCAA: Backjudge is the only one with the whistle even in his mouth to blow. However, defenses can return the PAT for their own score in our rules. The BJ will blow as soon as the ball passes them (or hits the EZ untouched), look at the LJ (or FG), say "Yes," or "No" and then they both signal. Obviously, the one making the call on their side will initiate the yes/no.

I guess another question is, regardless of code, which official makes the call if the two under the uprights for whatever reason disagree?

We don't. Oh well.

I would if I could count on a strong, consistent whistle, but I can't. So I blow it. It hasn't done us in yet.

If I worked NCAA rules, I would not (BTW).

I'm waiting for the first coach to call a time out to discuss a rule interpretation on this. He's technically right so you can't charge him a time-out. You'll have to appeal to his common sense and explain that while technically you had an IW, you are not going to call it in this instance.

That would cost the coach a time out and the conference would be very short, indeed.

Then again, the instant you realized what this fool was asking for the time out to discuss, you could simply ignore him and go on with your regular duties. If he wanted to make an issue out of it, he has the absolute right to complain to the appropriate authorities, which would only clarify to them what a fool he is.

Which is what I would do. I'd tell him to ask for me if he had anything to actually discuss and get myself to the goal line, where I belong.

The way we work it is the BJ and LJ are under the uprights, each official has his upright and the BJ has the crossbar all the way across. There shouldn't be any disagreement.

If the BJ didn't have an opinion on the cross bar he can ask for help, but the LJ shouldn't speak up about the crossbar unless asked. Each official has their own area of responsibility, they shouldn't officiate in another officials area.

We use the back judge for whistle and crossbar, the HL or LJ has the other post depending on if the Kicker is a righty or lefty

That's what we do now. My former crew once worked with our white hat a long ways off from the goal line (54 yard attempt...kid made 50 earlier) and whistled a long FG kick dead when he thought it had crossed the goal line and it hadn't. Ugly IW.

Except he would technically be right! The whistle sounded before the ball went through the uprights. That kills the play right there. I agree he's being silly but what would you tell him?

(Never mind.)

Frankly, this whole discussion is silly. I'd probably tell the coach he was being silly, too, and let the wing deal with him.

IN NJ, BJ has the whistle in a 5 man crew, and R only if the kick is blocked.

On my (MN) crew, our BJ sounds the whistle when the ball clears the upright. If the kick is blocked, it's either the R or one of the wing officials.

Not sure if other states do this or not, but in MN we have the BJ and U under the uprights on all trys and FG attempts.

Who watches the line play and for roughing the snapper?

You'll never see a U under the pipes in my state.

My crew puts the LJ under the pipes regardless of the foot of the kicker. I've seen others in the area that put either wing under the pipes with the BJ depending to the foot of the kicker.

The umpire still has that responsibility... although it's admittedly difficult on longer field goal attempts.

Having the U under the upright for all FG attempts is new this year... prior to 2009, the U is under the upright if the kick was from inside the 15... if the kick is from outside the 15, only the BJ was under the upright. (Unless it was a "game-deciding attempt"). We changed this year to make the positioning simpler and more consistent (some crews had the U under the upright on all attempts prior to 2009).

You put an U back on a FIVE man crew? My goodness, you value a second wing over an umpire on a KICK try or FG?

We work by the book with my crew:

4-man. R has the uprights. Wing on the side opposite the R stays on the line and watches for roughing on the kicker/holder. Wing on R's side goes to the end line and gives a thumbs up or thumbs down on the crossbar. If there's a fake or a fire situation, that wing can quickly get to the pylon and the R follows behind.

5-man we run 2 back at ANY distance. BJ and the wing on the R's side.