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-   -   End of Quarter Mechanics... (https://forum.officiating.com/football/54527-end-quarter-mechanics.html)

l3will Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:58am

End of Quarter Mechanics...
 
I observed this at a high school varsity game last Friday night.
Just thought that it may be instructional for some.

With 15 seconds left in the first quarter, team A makes a first down
by running. Clock stops, chains reset with ball on A's 47. Then the clock is restarted.
Time runs out without a play being run.

Umpire and Referee take charge of the ball and places the ball at A's 48.
Head Linesman and chain crew flip the chain with clip on A's 45. Head linesman
looks at the ball, says nothing to R and U. HL then has the chain crew set up with
the new ball position and has the chain crew reset the clip. First and 10 for
A at the new ball position. Clip moved at least three feet on the chain.

Not crucial to anything in the game....just looked bad.

waltjp Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:04am

We'd have at least 2 people checking the ball location after the move and speaking up. The LJ, independent of anyone else, notes the location of the ball when the period ends. He then moves to the appropriate spot on the other end of the field.

The HL notes the ball's location, down and distance, and clip location.

R and U note the ball's location, down and distance, and clip location. When R, U and HL confirm this information the U moves the ball to the new spot as the HL moves the chains.

Once the ball is placed and the chains are set all officials verify that we're in the correct place.

If the U places the ball incorrectly both the LJ and HL should speak up.

JugglingReferee Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:17am

Canadian Mechanics
 
The Canadian mechanic has a minimum of 3 people double checking the position of the change of quarter particulars.

In fact, some crews even demand a thumbs up from everyone that they have the sticks and ball in the correct position.

3-man crews: HL is independent of the R+U.
4-man: HL, LJ are each independent of the R+U.
5-man: HL, LJ are each independent of the R+U+BU.
6-man: HL, LJ, BJ are each independent of the R+U+BU.
7-man: HL, LJ, SJ, BJ are each independent of the R+U+FJ.

officialvb Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:21am

I believe way too many seasoned officials take it for granted that they will get the placement right & don't take the time needed to note down, YTG, yard line, etc... We need to take the time we need to get it right. Plus, what is this exhibiting to the new officials?

Rich Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by officialvb (Post 623484)
I believe way too many seasoned officials take it for granted that they will get the placement right & don't take the time needed to note down, YTG, yard line, etc... We need to take the time we need to get it right. Plus, what is this exhibiting to the new officials?

Yup. Besides, what's the rush?

This will be part of the pregame for my crew this week, though. No reason to take anything for granted.

ppaltice Wed Sep 02, 2009 01:08pm

A quick question:

On 1st and 10 with a quarter change, do you have the HL clip and move the chains or just line up on the ball's succeeding spot, then clip?

JugglingReferee Wed Sep 02, 2009 01:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ppaltice (Post 623536)
A quick question:

On 1st and 10 with a quarter change, do you have the HL clip and move the chains or just line up on the ball's succeeding spot, then clip?

I would not require my HL to clip before the switch.

HLin NC Wed Sep 02, 2009 02:17pm

On a first down, our R's will instuct us to go off he and the U after I've consulted D/D/YL with them. Clip is set after we've switched ends.

umpirebob71 Wed Sep 02, 2009 04:39pm

Do any of you use a tape measure to get the exact location of the ball after the 1st and 3rd quarters? I've always used one.

mv7267 Wed Sep 02, 2009 06:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpirebob71 (Post 623621)
Do any of you use a tape measure to get the exact location of the ball after the 1st and 3rd quarters? I've always used one.

We do.

Also as the BJ, I go to the new spot while timing the break and wait for the R & U. After they set the ball, I get a new one to start the quarter. We were complemented by an observer last season that it looked "sharp".

Ref inSoCA Wed Sep 02, 2009 07:12pm

With a 1st Down at the quarter change, you don't bother with the clip. Set the box and chain and the boxman sets the clip.

InsideTheStripe Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mv7267 (Post 623639)
We do.

Also as the BJ, I go to the new spot while timing the break and wait for the R & U. After they set the ball, I get a new one to start the quarter. We were complemented by an observer last season that it looked "sharp".

Must be a north eastern Ohio thing...

I've never seen anyone take a tape measure onto a football field. Or any field for that matter.

umpirebob71 Thu Sep 03, 2009 01:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideTheStripe (Post 623674)
Must be a north eastern Ohio thing...

I've never seen anyone take a tape measure onto a football field. Or any field for that matter.

How do you get the exact spot to place the ball? The way I see it, the only way is to use a tape to measure where to spot it. Maybe that isn't important in the Chicago area, but in northeast Ohio, it is.

Bullycon Thu Sep 03, 2009 05:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpirebob71 (Post 623695)
How do you get the exact spot to place the ball? The way I see it, the only way is to use a tape to measure where to spot it. Maybe that isn't important in the Chicago area, but in northeast Ohio, it is.

When recording the yardline, we also note how far the point of the ball is from the next hash. It's not exact, but I don't think the location changes any more than when the umpire spots the ball on an inbounds spot based on the foot of a wingman in the side zones.

If it's close to the line to gain, we'll use the chains to measure the exact spot, similar to moving the ball from a side zone to the inbounds spot after a measurement.

This reminds me of a funny scene from a preseason scrimmage about a month ago. The only lines on the field were the boundary lines, goal lines, 20s and 50. Yet, the format called for regular series-based possessions. Once, it was close enough to require a measurement. Fortunately, the ball was very close to the 20. The referee noted that the point was exactly one foot length from the 20. He then ran over to the sideline, noted the line to gain was half the length of his foot from the 20, and signaled first down for team B. It was the most unique measurement I've seen.

InsideTheStripe Thu Sep 03, 2009 07:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpirebob71 (Post 623695)
How do you get the exact spot to place the ball? The way I see it, the only way is to use a tape to measure where to spot it. Maybe that isn't important in the Chicago area, but in northeast Ohio, it is.

As previously mentioned by Bullycon, we'll use the LTG equipment when necessary. Otherwise, we'll note the ball position between the hashes and put it in the same position between the hashes in the appropriate spot on the other end of the field - it's not that difficult.

Personally, I'm not opposed to the use of a tape measure. I've just never seen or heard of anyone doing so until this thread.

Rich Thu Sep 03, 2009 08:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullycon (Post 623699)
When recording the yardline, we also note how far the point of the ball is from the next hash. It's not exact, but I don't think the location changes any more than when the umpire spots the ball on an inbounds spot based on the foot of a wingman in the side zones.

If it's close to the line to gain, we'll use the chains to measure the exact spot, similar to moving the ball from a side zone to the inbounds spot after a measurement.

This reminds me of a funny scene from a preseason scrimmage about a month ago. The only lines on the field were the boundary lines, goal lines, 20s and 50. Yet, the format called for regular series-based possessions. Once, it was close enough to require a measurement. Fortunately, the ball was very close to the 20. The referee noted that the point was exactly one foot length from the 20. He then ran over to the sideline, noted the line to gain was half the length of his foot from the 20, and signaled first down for team B. It was the most unique measurement I've seen.

Same stuff for us at our scrimmages. Except we had no chains at all. So anything close was a first down. Nobody said a word. I wondered if we could do that in the regular season. :D

jjrye22 Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:05am

I think it is interesting that most of you who have mentioned it say you flip the ball then set the chain and clip if it is first down.

I go the other way. Set the chains and clip, then flip and set everything based on the clip. We have some horribly marked fields however, so maybe it is a local thing, but I think the chances of the U being off are greater than of the chain.

JugglingReferee Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjrye22 (Post 623726)
I think it is interesting that most of you who have mentioned it say you flip the ball then set the chain and clip if it is first down.

I go the other way. Set the chains and clip, then flip and set everything based on the clip. We have some horribly marked fields however, so maybe it is a local thing, but I think the chances of the U being off are greater than of the chain.

Interesting.

buckrog64 Fri Sep 04, 2009 01:53pm

When the quarter ends with a 1/10, we take the ball to the other end and have the chains line up on the ball. I am careful to note yardline for ball so it's properly placed at the other end. But my R and U are experienced and are careful to set the ball properly. If the ball is set, then the chains can lined up on the ball and all will be well. If we've had penalties however, then I'm a lot more diligent on making sure everything is properly clipped when switching ends just to be safe. I think it's possible to overdo things just like it's possible to underdo them.

JugglingReferee Fri Sep 04, 2009 03:21pm

My crew in a summer provincial game had the interested case of an end-of-quarter situation with a measurement.

On the last play of the first quarter, the LJ had progress (outside the hash marks) to which we had to measure to see if a first down was earned or not. (It was not earned.) Our measurement mechanics employ a checks and balance system so that if any one mechanic fails, there is a fallback method to redo all of the previous decision with 100% accuracy.

The cool thing was I was working with two rookie side guys, and they both nailed the transformation from 1Q to 2Q!

BuckeyeRef Mon Sep 07, 2009 08:32pm

I like JJRye22's point. Especially in the scenario laid out in the original post.
With 16 seconds left in the quarter the chains are set in case some coach wants to run one more play before the quarter ends. If they do not, why simply reset the chains at the other end? Flip the chains just like you would under any other end of quarter situation and you have a check on what the R and U are doing with the ball.


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