False start or Illegal Shift?
 

A (a) person on the line or (b) person in the backfield starts to go down into their stance (putting hand on ground) as the ball is being snapped.

Should this be blown dead and a false start called or should this just be ruled an illegal shift and play continues?

Shift-

Unless the motion simulates action at the snap, this is an illegal shift and a live-ball foul. See 7-1-7.

Ok thanks. That's what I called in the game but my partner said I should have blown that dead.

while the penalties are the same, this is illegial motion not illegial shift. Illegial shift is more than 1 player moving at the snap while illegial more is 1 person illegial moving at the snap. Again, penalty is the same. ;)

ART. 6 . . . After a huddle or shift all 11 players of A shall come to an absolute
stop and shall remain stationary simultaneously without movement of hands,
feet, head or body for at least one second before the snap.

PENALTY: illegal shift (Art. 6)

As HLin's citation points out, the foul on this play is illegal shift. As you point out, the penalty is the same.

You might find this account of illegal shift/motion by Bob M. helpful: link.

But if you signaled it as illegal shift, you wouldn't be able to hold your sandwich in the other hand.

What's the prevailing idea on false start versus illegal motion on a back? As a rising WH, I'm curious.

I had this one in my scrimmage the other day. We had a team lined up in the wishbone, and the front RB missed the snap count. He flinched, and I killed the play with a flag for false start. The experience WH mentoring me said I should have let the play go and flagged it as illegal motion. I told him that I thought it was a FS since that's "simulating the snap" (intentional or not). Thoughts?

Sounds to me like you got it right. Simulating a snap = false start.

I've had the same thing happen to me. That's why I decided long ago to leave a tailback and/or fullback to the WH as you get a different answer from different ones on FS/IM. I'll take the slot or wing back on my side but leave the ones closest for him and the he can do as he wishes.

Agreed. I had the same thing with my WH last fall on one play, where I flagged the guy in motion for a false start because he cut upfield before the snap (his foot was in the neutral zone before the snap) and killed the play. My WH said that was illegal motion and signaled it as such. At halftime, he admonished me about it, saying the guy in motion could never commit false start, only illegal motion. When I mentioned his foot was in the neutral zone before the snap, WH said it don't matter, still illegal motion. My U pulled me aside later and said, don't sweat it, because they both (false start and illegal motion) have the same penalty, just the difference is live ball/dead ball.

I told my wings to shut these things down if they think it needs to be shut down. If it's a back and they don't shut it down, I may or may not depending on the situation, but I have yet to question a wing who has called it a false start.

Sounds like encroachment to me. It's usually not a false start if he's already in motion, and it can't be illegal motion until the snap.

2-8 Encroachment: Encroachment occurs when a player is illegally in the neutral zone during the
time interval starting when the ball is marked ready for play and until the ball is snapped or free kicked.

Yeah, I realized that after the game that night. I talked to the WH after the game, and asked if he heard me say that. He said, still no difference. :rolleyes:

I don't know about prevailing, but we try and move everything we can into the false start category. Its much easier to kill a play than it is to bring back a touchdown. Plus, it takes less time and rarely, as long as something looks wrong with the movement, do we hear anything from the coaches. I'm not saying you base everything on that, but its a bonus.

To me, calling NCAA rules which are or may be a bit different than Fed in this area, I'm only going to call a live ball illegal shift if, say, 2 guys were shifting and one stops while the other stays in motion without stopping before and during the snap (may be other similar examples). However, if there is any movement toward the LOS by a player who wasn't already in motion (by himself) at the snap, we're shutting it down. We go over this in pregame as we believe it simulates the start of a play and fits under the false start category. In fact, I had this Saturday. One back starts to go in motion and the other one starts moving toward the line just before and during the snap. False start.

I would love to see a US guy ref a Canadian game. :p

What if it's just part of a shift? If the motion isn't quick, jerky, or some other way simulating action at the snap (such as pretending to play the ball), or seems to have no reason to exist other than to draw the defense, the backs have the right to participate in a shift, which may include movement in any direction. It's not uncommon for team A to confuse team B by starting someone in motion in a way that that player might on many plays be in motion at the snap, and then have other players move, and then have everybody reset, completing a shift. I've seen it countless times by double wingbone or flexbone teams, where they motion the wingbacks or shift them into deep halfback position. That sort of action also used to be seen by teams using what they called a Canadian style multiple offense, where they'd get as close as they could to Canadian motion under USAn rules.

Robert

Yeah, well, last I saw, not even Canadian teams were using Canadian style motion any more. Some time around 1980 they seem to have stopped the coordinated "flying" backfield and just started milling around to disguise the snap count. Now they look like nervous people waiting impatiently for the subway train to arrive and not knowing where the doors will open, or contestants on To Tell The Truth about to reveal who it was.

Robert

On the wings, I definitely leave the backfield to the WH. But I'm going to be the WH three times this year, and I won't have anyone left to give it to! :)

Illegal shift is not more that one person moving at the snap. Illegal motion is more than one moving at the snap. An illegal shift happens when two players are in motion but one of them stops (shifts) while the other one continues his motion into the snap.