The Official Forum - Touchback/Safety penalty

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 618289)

Interesting! He must also be a baseball umpire. So he's saying the player's behavior will be taken constructively as if he had said, "Down." Is this one where the officials huddle and the R says: "It would really simplify things if one of you heard him say `down' before he threw the ball."?

Robert

Robert-

Perhaps the umpire should yell "PLAY ON" :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VALJ (Post 618252)

Double foul, replay the down.

10-2-1: It is a double foul if both teams commit fouls, other than unsportsmanlike or nonplayer, during the same live-ball period in which:
c. There is a change of possession and the team in final possession accepts the penalty for it's opponent's foul at any time during the down.

If B declines the face mask, their penalty is enforced from the EZ, resulting in a safety. They're not going to do that, so they'll accept A's penalty and offset the fouls.

Don't be so quick to make B's choice! If they were leading by enough in the 4th period with little time left and A close to B's goal line, they might well be happy to give up the safety and free kick. They might even want to do so regardless of the score and time left.

Robert

Quote:

Originally Posted by michrefdh (Post 618277)

KWH

Thanks for the explanations and the discussion.

I am just getting back into working HS football this year after a hiatus of over a decade. So perhaps there have been some interim changes that I'm still trying to catch up with.

Back when I did it before, as I remember it, the force rule was basically that if you weren't responsible for the force putting the ball in the endzone (especially for B) then it couldn't be a safety. Not sure if that was correct back then, or not. I'm still working on the rule books, but the main thing I'm having trouble with is perhaps all the interim yearly changes over the past decade.

Do you know, or is there any source for looking up those past yearly rule changes?

michrefdh-

This site gives you a pretty good summary.

NCAA and NFHS Football Rules and Rules Changes Index - Football.Refs.Org

Also, the NFHS Football Handbook has a good review.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWH (Post 618269)

However, sometimes in NFHS logic one rule trumps another rule.

For an example, read rule 8-2-1a, b, and c. All of these are examples of how to score a touchdown. However, we all know that if the scoring team fouled prior to scoring they don't get to keep the points even though it does not say that anywhere in Rule 8-2-1.

But often the rules have to spell out the order in which things are resolved. For instance, with change of possession before a live ball foul, the CoP is "preserved" in the administration of the penalty. However, when A advances the ball beyond the line to gain before a live ball foul, the penalty choice & enforcement is administered before it is determined whether there's a new series and before setting a new line to gain. So it's not unreasonable to ask that the rules be explicit about safety/touchback and penalties. Actually I think this one is explicit about that, because there's no other way to read the penalty provision specific to that case, but it would be reasonable to ask that the other apparently applicable rule explicitly reference it as an exception.

Robert

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWH (Post 618292)

Robert-

Perhaps the umpire should yell "PLAY ON" :)

Didn't we have a discussion like that here (or maybe it was in rec.sport.officiating) regarding NCAA rules where a player catches an opponent's kick in R's end zone, and, thinking the ball is dead, tosses it to an official or leaves it on the ground?

Robert

"Play on" were the magic words used after the clock expired for an untimed down. ;)