The other problem is that these knotheads don't realize that the official's view standing on the field, watching the game live is one hell of a lot different than sitting in the living room watching replays. All it takes is a glance one direction to miss something in another. Bodies, body parts, can flash in front of you at just the right moment to obscure your vision. I know for myself that I can see something, have to take a moment to process it and it's effect on the game or if it was what I really saw and I'm missing something else.

Take Rothlisberger's TD at the start of the game and the "helping the runner" call that was supposedly missed. It's possible the wing was focused on the position of the ball and didn't see much else. After all what's more important? If you throw the flag and miss where the ball is then these dumbsh8ts will be whining that he didn't see the ball. I'd rather want to know if the ball crossed the line as my first priority.

How about Warner's fumble that was reviewed and became an incomplete pass? I'm guessing there was no way for the white hat to see his arm in the position he was in when he threw the ball. However, one thing is very clear and that was Warner's fumble at the end of the game. I had no doubt it was a fumble. These knotheads just find it easier to sit back and whine than to get off their lazy butts and become an official.

Fans are very rarely interested in reality in discussions like this. They are more interested in pissing and moaning.

They ask questions, but then when their questions get answered the person answering is either FOS or "covering up for the refs." That's just the way it is.

I spend a lot of time on a couple of college fan forums and it's really pretty comical. I used to try to explain rulings etc., but you know it's bad when you can provide a quote directly from the rule book and still be informed that you are wrong.

I have learned to let Matthew 7:6 be my guide.

The above is something we all should have learned by the end of the first quarter of our first game. Likely the reason most of us, at least the rational ones, have learned to totally ignore anything that comes out of the spectator area.

Every now and then a serious fan will ask a reasonable question in a respectful manner at an appropriate opportunity, because he/she is seriously interested in knowing the answer. Occassionally that happens on these forums, and most replys are intended to be helpful and instructional.

Unfortunately, most of the really stupid, rabid fans who shout and yell dumb things, know how to type. Ignoring their ignorant rantings on the field is a great way of dealing with them, it would probably work as well on line.

I thought the same thing when I saw that. You very rarely see "assisting the runner" called at any level but I thought that might qualify. I'm not sure what the NFL threshold is for considering that foul but I thought kdf5 made a good point on this. The only official likely to catch that would be the wing who was probably more focused on whether or not he got into the end zone. I am curious to hear if Mike P. thought that should have been called "assisting the runner."

My guess why the RTP was called was not only because the defender hit him a second after the ball released, but he extended his arms as part of the hit. He probably didn't have enough time to hold up his original charge and there was nothing outrageous about where he hit him (i.e. head) but I don't think the defender needed to extend his arms the way he did. I wonder if that was what went through McAuley's head. I don't always agree with how tough they have gotten on RTP. If that is RTP by the current definition, that is too light. We also don't know if McAuley had talked to that defender on previous plays about close calls and he continued to do it.

But it's not nearly as fun.

Then why are you complaining on an Officials' Forum?
No official in any sport writes the rules or devises instant replay.

That is the province of team and league management.

After all your whining the bottom line is you don't like the NFL very much.

Yet you admit to watching 10-12 NFL games a week.

Either you are a masochist or you choose to deny your real reason for complaining:

Your team didn't win.

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!!!

Fixed that for ya' Walt.

I thought the game had alot more penalties called than in normal big games. But most of them were STUPID mistakes by both teams that should have been called. On the roughing the holder, I first thought it was roughing the snapper, then I saw the replay and I couldn't believe someone would be that dumb to do that. (I'm a Warner fan so I wanted AZ to win). Obviously it seemed like AZ was doing all the dumb things in the first half, then Pitt caught up with them in the 2nd. I think the officials stayed out of it the best they could, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. And they did.

Harrison Personal foul
 

To me, it looks like Harrison was upset for the attempted block on his knees by Francisco. I've seen players get thrown out of an NFL or NCAA game for far less things. I would not have been surprised if Harrison had been ejected if the officials thought his first strike was a punch. Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCrAbErvQ54&eurl

Peter King seems to have reached the same opinion as the majority here.

But what does Keither Olbermann think? ;)

1.I got one solution, stop letting the referee on the field rule on instant replay, have a central office in NY and force Mike Perriera to cover his own *** and not officials. I believe both MLB and NHL have this format, takes the pressure of the head official anyways Im sure they wont mind.

2.Automatic Review all forward pass fumble deals, NFL REFs are very inconsistent on these type of plays.

The first forward pass from SB43, ruled a fumble is a great example, a team should not have to waste a challenge because Mcually and his crew couldnt make a gut decision in crunchtime. It was not even that close in my opinion. A big surprise the 2nd one was ruled a fumble?

3. Get rid of celebration bull**** rules, most are hillarious to watch and do not cause any harm. This is the NFL not pop warner.

4. add another official behind the referee to rule on long returns, since most flanks in the NFL cant get down the field at the same speed as the players. Or get ran over trying to get down the middle of the field. THe flank in the SB was to busy dodging players and coaches on the sideline to see any of the blocks anyways and was WAY behind the play even though harrison runs a 6.5 in the 40

5. No more 15 yard only facemask, anyone who has played footbal knows that incidental contact occurs often. too judgemental of a call. takes the pressure of the official.

What about the part where you become an official?

Another level of ignorance.
 

The Referee on the field does not have anything to do with deciding the instant replay. Outside of 2 minutes the coach has the ability to challenge any play within the rules. The Referee has no say when or when they do not review plays; they just apply the challenge if it is for the right reason allowed by the NFL. MLB only reviews plays that involve home runs; they do not review all plays or have the ability to review most plays under the current guidelines. Not ball/strike calls, no out/safe calls, not even fair foul unless it involves home runs.

Then you would have a delay every time this happen. The current problem with replay is that you would have potentially 20 reviews. Also there are very few NFL officials get wrong. And there are not many conclusive angles. Unless the NFL is going to have grass cameras, you are not going to see all plays anyway.


Well the NFL wants to keep a certain image and the other levels have in the past pleaded with the NFL to make these actions illegal. I do not completely disagree about changing the rules, but they are what they are. This has nothing to do with the officials. Officials do not write the rules on these. They only enforce them.


Not going to happen. For one there have not been any problems with long runs. The same issues that are made on other plays are the same issues if the field is flipped.

It is not a hard call to make. But how would you know. I did not see any problem with these calls.

Peace

Point well taken, I am not saying Im right or wrong, and Im not saying anyone on this that comments is right or wrong. My agenda was to point out that there were an abnormal amount of questionable calls and actions in this game, 90% of them helping PITTS. What prompts me to do this is about ten of you saying that you thought the crew did a "great job" is bologna. I also knew coming in to the game that Mcually's crew called the most penalties in the NFL this year and absolutely predicted prior to the game that this game would come down to a call. (Which is why I took the cards +7 and made an assload of money)
I understand that it is not easy to get all the calls right, nor would I expect that to happen, but when you have a game like that it causes fans to lose confidence in the officiating. Again I am a neutral fan who was disappointed because I like millions of other neutral fans dont think the Cards got a fair shot, just like the Seahawks in 2005.

If you think this game was officiated well and you dont agree, then you are just drinking the Mike P. kool aid, wake up and smell the coffee. The fans are the ones that pay the bills and as being a season ticket holder for 12 years I am entitled to my opinion.

PEACE

Yeah, but that would actually take some balls.

on #1 im talking about the official looking into a camera, have someone else make the ruling, not who decides if there will be a replay I know that is done inside of two minutes by the booth.

on #2 there are not twenty instances per game where the qb gets hit in the act of throwing, get real!!! Maybe 1-2 per game if you average it all out.

#4 did you see Mike Carey get leveled by Matt Ryan? Have you ever seen a flank run into a player or coach? Do you watch football?

#5 facemasks happen quick like everything else, if you have a 5 yarder your not killing a team for a non flagrant twist and or pull. And Im not an idiot I know the after the play official huddles are to discuss wether it was a 5 or a 15 and then who is it on, well when they had the two options.

And yes I understand the NFL rules committee and not the officials make the rules, Im not as ignorant as you keep trying to make me be.

You asked me what I would change that was shooting from my hip

The biggest myth is sports are that fouls are supposed to be even. Just like players and teams to not make equally great plays, you cannot expect players and teams to make the same number of mistakes. Officials officiate mistakes. If everyone followed the rules, you would not need officials. Someone has to be out there to identify those mistakes.

I did not see any plays where the Steelers ran into a holder (which you almost never see at any level BTW). The Steelers had the only penalties that resulted in points which put the Cardinals in position to score on the next drive. They had a penalty before that that backed them up closer to the end zone before the holding that resulted in a safety in a personal foul. There were quite a few personal fouls by both teams and one was pretty stupid on a Steelers player, but the Cardinals did not convert. And no body told the Cardinals not to cover a receiver that made about 4 catches in the same drive and allow him an opportunity to win the game. Did the officials make the Cardinal DB fall so that the MVP could run 30-40 yards down field? Or did the officials tell their sideline player to run into a chasing player on the last play of the first half? And you really can make a case that the play calling by the Cardinals forgot about Fitzgerald until the game was almost over. What would have happen if they run plays to him most of the game?

When are you going to acknowledge those mistakes?


In any profession, the average person is not an expert one what it takes to be successful at that profession. And whether you like it or not, the fans are not going to ever dictate that. No one needs to drink anything, we have actually been in situations where we have had to make calls in a split second and there is not instant replay to back us up. And when you have been in those situations, you realize how hard it is to call a game with bigger, faster and stronger players. And it is amazing to me how many times these officials get plays right. The replay system backs up officials most of the time. And you for one did not even understand the idiosyncrasies of that system. And I do not care if you are a season ticket holder that is your problem. I am not a season ticket holder and would not be. If I was I would complain to the people I am wasting my money for, not people that do not run the organization and only know of things from a far. I can see you are not a very smart consumer. ;)

Peace

So what exactly are you trying to say? Are you saying that the crew cheated for the Steelers in this game and in Super Bowl XL? that's certainly how your comments here come across.

Oh, and what "call did the game come down to"?

Apparently you are, since you don't understand how the current facemask rule works.

Anything that was previously a 5 yarder is now no longer penalized. So how are teams getting killed for a "non-flagrant twist and pull"? Oh and if it was either twisted or pulled it's 15. Period.

At least learn the rules before you b!tch about them.

The majority of questions about the calls on the field are from those who do not understand the rules and their interpretations. That includes the righteous media.

Fact - this was not McAulay's crew. The crew consisted of officials who graded out the highest at their position during the season. This also points to the fact that this is the way the league wants the game to be called.

Again, your opinion of the calls is of little consequence to the NFL. This is how they want the game called. btw - the offensive pass interference against Seattle was a terrific call!

The comment above seems to contradict the following statement.

Everyone has an opinion. But having an opinion doesn't make you correct.

Name one play where this was a problem?

Take it up with the NFL. The NFL is a business and they do not want their marquee players out (like Tom Brady) all season long because they get hit illegally. So the NFL Competition Committee (which is not made up of officials BTW) cracked down on these kinds of hits. The NFL would have rather had Tom Brady all season in the playoffs than Matt Ryan that might not win anything. I can guarantee you that one. ;) If you are a season ticket holder, take that up with the NFL or give back your tickets. I am sure someone will take them without any problem.

I can guarantee you, I watch more football than you will ever know. Mike Carey getting run into did not prevent the other officials to make a ruling on the play. Actually the Referee is only a secondary person on these kinds of plays. If you were an official, you might know that. ;)

More ignorance. A 15 yard facemask is not a "flagrant penalty." A flagrant act involves an ejection and I have not seen anyone ejected lately for a facemask and neither have you. If you are going to complain about something, at least know why the penalty is called.


Well then you need to take that up with those people. I think the bottom line you are scared to become an officials because you could not handle people questioning your judgments (like we are doing now). Then and only then will people maybe start to respect your opinions because it will be based on facts, not what you think the rules are.

Peace

Your experience in these matters pretty much says it all.

There is no such thing as a "non flagrant twist and pull." By rule ANY twist and pull is automatically a 15 yard penalty. The 5 yard penalty was for a grasp and release. Don't confuse the word incidental with accidental. Player's are considered to always be in control of their actions, there are no accidents in the rule book.

He thinks Big Ben is the worst person in the world; because Limbaugh is a Steelers fan. :)

I've been watching airplanes go over my house for 25 years...that does not make me a pilot! :D

Only if you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

The closest analogy I can think of to describe the value of some of the comments, observations and suggestions made regarding the SB officiating would be adding a spectator section to an Emergency room, so those who have either participated in or witnessed prior accidents could shout "opinions" to the ER doctors.

Sometimes it seems we forget it's the game itself, and how it's played (which includes coached, managed and officiated) which creates the interest and attraction that draws the spectators. Spectators buy tickets so they can, hopefully, enjoy watching the game unfold.

As evidenced by some of the comments made here, spectating does not necessarily impart great wisdom or an acute understanding of the fine points of the game. The vast majority of spectators understand their role is to observe, enjoy and be entertained and are totally satisfied with those benefits.

2 things
 

#1 - The Holmes imitation of LeBron James... How is what Holmes did any different than tossing the ball or spiking the ball, or doing the weave through the legs with the ball? Seriously. I thought at first it should have been flagged, but then thought it about it for while. If the ball is a prop then every TD would end with a foul. Not sure I'd flag this after thinking a while.

#2 - Last fumble by Warner... I really thought, and still do think, this should have been ruled an incomplete forward pass. I cannot believe it was not reviewed at least. This brings up the right of challenge by coaches inside 2:00. Why not allow those challenges? Arizona already correctly challenged two during the game after all.

hahahahaha. Lmao!!!

[QUOTE=Rick KY;576143]#1 - The Holmes imitation of LeBron James... How is what Holmes did any different than tossing the ball or spiking the ball, or doing the weave through the legs with the ball? Seriously. I thought at first it should have been flagged, but then thought it about it for while. If the ball is a prop then every TD would end with a foul. Not sure I'd flag this after thinking a while.
[QUOTE]

While I agree that it's not terribly different, the NFL has specifically targeted acts like that, as opposed to spikes and tosses.

I'm a Steeler fan and first thing I thought when he did that was Oh ****, cuz I knew it was fixing to cost them 15.

If you read my thread I am saying I would like to have the 5 and the 15 back, and before the rule was changed there are sometimes hudldles by officials to determine if it is a 5 or 15. not that a face mask penalty in the superbowl should have been a five yarder.

Fact - this was not McAulay's crew. The crew consisted of officials who graded out the highest at their position during the season. This also points to the fact that this is the way the league wants the game to be called.


So your telling me that Mcually didnt probably have hours of pregame preparation with his crew to discuss how the game would be officiated, doesnt really matter who is crew was it was who was in charge on the field during the game. Mcually was the one who kept screwing up and was inconsistent on his responsibilities anyways, so keep sticking up for him.











Everyone has an opinion. But having an opinion doesn't make you correct.[/QUOTE]

This is another example of your ignorance and ability to stay ignorant.

Crews do not talk about what they are going to call during the game. You review responsibilities of the crew, like who has what type of coverage and how that will be handled in certain plays that you might be aware of, but the NFL has already reviewed with those officials what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. And the Referee (Mcully) is not watching the entire field and in no way controls what everyone calls. When officials call a penalty, he just administrates the penalty. He does not necessarily have personal knowledge of the penalty or why it was called. It is abundantly clear you do not even know that by your comments and just more reason you are getting criticized. Honestly, it is not about defending anyone on the crew. If you are going to have a criticism, at the very least criticize the right person for the right reasons. But that would take knowledge and common sense to come to that conclusion. Things you seem to be lacking big time.

A person that officiates Pee-Wee Ball would have known these things.

Peace

On Sunday, February 1, 2009 it was McAullay's crew!

They did have hours of pre-game preparations on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. They all officiate by the same philosophy. I sure don't know where you get off thinking that he screwed up or was inconsistent! You apparently were watching a different game or simply didn't know what you were watching to begin with.

Official Review is up: http://www.nfl.com/videos

On the celebration no-call, it's confirmed that it was missed because it was far longer after the score than is normal. Pereira says that the covering official did everything he was supposed to - in other words, the mechanics make that a penalty that's unlikely to be called as no-one's looking for it.

There was a penalty on the fumble at the end of the game, which gave the replay official time to look at various angles. He did his job; he confirmed that the call was correct (which Pereira and the referee also believe it was, having now seen the replays). In future, though, close but almost certainly correct calls which could be game-changing that late on may be referred down to the referee more readily than is current practice. The replay official phoned the tv crews, to say he'd confirmed the call, apparently, which is why the commentators were saying that it had been reviewed.

At the end of the first half, the personal foul by Arizona prior to the interception would have been tacked onto the end of the run, so if the interception hadn't been run back for a touchdown, Pittsburgh would have got an extra play. (I didn't realise this, and it seems counter-intuitive, as the foul played no part in the events following the interception. But I'm just a fan, not an official! How is it in other rule-sets?)

Finally, roughing the holder is a foul, though note that running into the holder isn't (unlike running into the kicker) so there needed to be an element of unnecessary roughness. Pereira said, "he's not coming off a block"... I suppose running unstopped in the direction and running over the holder was enough to count as 'roughing'. He said he's not seen the foul called before!

I just watched the link that was posted and I also watched most of the game last Sunday and I am not sure why everyone is throwing this crew under the bus.

Yes, there were a lot of penalties for a Super Bowl, but they got them right and that is what you want is calls being right.

The roughing the holder was easy to call. Normally in any football, the holder is a back up QB, punter, or kicker, and plus this player was defense less and in a defense less position, so it was a no brainer call for McAulay to make.

Slight mis-understanding here on your part. He didn't say there had to be an element of roughing. He just said there isn't a running-into variety (5 yards) regarding the holder. Almost any contact with the holder would be considered roughing. They just don't get touched that often.

Great summary of the video otherwise.

Great game. Officiated very well. No game is ever perfectly officiated. The calls and no-calls had no effect on the outcome.

Biggest play of the game was the last one of the first half. Warner would like to have that one back. Big swing and that was the difference in the game.

"Everyone" isn't throwing the crew under the bus, just uninformed beer chugging goofs who don't know a thing about officiating are doing that.

I always wonder about those beer chugging goofs who complain about penalties called, "what if" those penalties were not called, would they still complain?

I believe the answer is yes because they have nothing better to do. Lets invite them to spend a day on the football field in the striped shirt and see how long they last.

Please, don't do that. It's way beyond our abilities to educate these fools. Folks who ask reasonable, rational questions because they're serious about knowing the answer, are a different story, but, "beer chugging goofs who complain about penalties" are only interested in the sound of their own voice.

The farther they stay away from the field, the better all of us, and the game itself will be.

It may not be the same goofs, but there would be goofs complaining.

I like to refer to it as the law of inverse color and call.

Let's say there's a foul on the blue team. All the blue team goofs get all worked up telling you how it's a BS call, etc.

However if the red team does the exact same thing that "wasn't a foul" when blue did it, and there is no flag, then the goofs are complaining that it wasn't called.

Make sense?

Kinda like if you flag something it was either ticky-tack, or borderline or BS or whatever, but if you don't flag it well it's because you didn't have the balls to put your flag on it.

I have discovered that it is pretty much the nature of the beast.

No, no!

These guys who have "watched" NFL games -- making them experts -- for decades and freely offer their opinion of how bad the officiating is deserve a chance to show what they are made of. Most would probably last through the kickoff and the first play from scrimmage before they head off to a beer.

Reminds me of a story this past season. Junior high game, 60 year old ref who can still move pretty good and is in good shape. Play down the sideline, runner goes out of bounds, ref is about 7 yards behind the play and immediately moves to the spot and signals timeout. Behind him walking slowly an obviously overweight, extended belly gentleman yells, "hey ref, you got to keep up with them."

When E.F. Hutton talks; "People listen" and...
 

While your impressive resume clearly contains some of the most notable and absolutley invaluable experiance on this board, :eek:

Out of curiosity, is that the only nail you have to hang your hat on? :p

WOW!!! :D

Definitely impressive!:cool:

He has more experience than Terry McAulay and Ed Hochuli combined. :rolleyes:

Most fans like fljet simply reserve the right to remain stupid so talking to them is a waste of time anyway.

I'm not sure about NFL rules, but under NFHS the foul at the end of the half would not have been "tacked onto the end of the run." The foul occurred before the change of possession, in order to keep the ball Pittsburgh would have to decline the penalty. If the penalty was accepted Arizona would have had an untimed down after the penalty was administered.

The barometer for roughing the holder would be the same as the kicker. Meaning if he was displaced it would be roughing as opposed to running into.

If the penalty was before change of possession then that means it was on the offense. An accepted offensive penalty does not require an untimed down, the half would have ended.

Not true. An accepted live ball penalty would require an untimed down unless it was a loss of down or a dead ball penalty 3.3.4b. There would be no reason for the defense to allow another play so it would naturally be declined. 3.3.3.

I don't think that is the case in the NFL (based on my 39 years of watching multiple games on most Sundays during the months of Sep/Oct/Nov/Dec/Jan :D ), but I could be wrong.

I don't know about the NFL either. I am quoting NFHS. However, watching certainly doesn't qualify for rules knowledge by any means.

That was my thought while watching: if they ruled him down short, Pittsburgh could accept the penalty, giving Arizona the ball back, and one last shot at the end-zone (unlikely), or go into the locker room having nearly but not quite pulled off one of the greatest interceptions in Superbowl history!

The idea that a foul before a change of possession is still assessed against the possession-surrendering team seemed very odd - but that's what Pereria said the rule was in the NFL (and, I suppose, the justification is that 'Personal Foul' is not a foul because it is an unfair game-altering act like holding, but an offence of unauthorised violence towards another player which ought to be penalised when ever it takes place.)

The technicalities on whose penalties extend the half are well beyond my amateur status, of course!

What you say makes sense. The NFL rule essentially states no personal foul shall go unpunished. In the case of the Super Bowl half ending play if the Pittsburgh player had been tackled that foul would have been HUGE.

The NFHS philosophy would have disadvantaged Pittsburgh because you cannot have the ball and the foul if the foul against you was pre-possession.

NFHS has been leaning toward no personal foul goes unpenalized in the area of scoring. Personally, I think that should be the rule. My pet peeve over the years has been chipping -- contact on a defenseless player -- by the offense on the long run which officials hesitate to penalize per the rule.

When I first saw the play live I thought that was a block in the back. Upon further review - it was obvious he got him on the shoulder - no foul, not even in a high school game.

Roughing the snapper was so obvious that I'd fire anyone who didn't flag it.

really sure ?

live wire
9:48 and
at stop 10:12 you can see his left arm in the back and his right arm (i think) from behind is over the right shoulder. that is correct?
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80e9de21

anatomy
3:33
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80e97cd9

It does not matter whether he hit him in the back or not. The fact that he jumped in front and turned would not be a foul at any level. He did not see him in the back and hit him in the back; he might have made contact with the back after he ran in front of him. That is not a foul by the philosophy I have been working under for years.

Peace

Mike Pereira explained in the Official Review that the NFL rule would have allowed Pittsburgh to have an untimed down because the penalty was a personal foul. It didn't matter if it occurred pre- or post-COP. I had never heard that before but it makes sense. As others have stated, this would be enforced differently at the NFHS level and the defensive team would not have been happy.