Missing tailbone pad puts team in the playoffs

[JasonTX]

Since when do we allow coaches to point out the fouls that we call. Let them complain all they want, but if they insist then call a timeout and check everyone of their players to. I guarantee you that we can find something wrong. There's just know way, if I didn't find fault during the pregame walk thru, that I then penalized them at the end of the game like that. Let alone, flag it because a coach points it out. We'll do the officiating and let them do the coaching.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Since when do we allow coaches to point out the fouls that we call. Let them complain all they want, but if they insist then call a timeout and check everyone of their players to. I guarantee you that we can find something wrong.

I don't know how it is in Texas, but around here most teams wear all the required equipment. Saying your are going to check one team (you are only checking players, not reserves) and find something wrong is a stretch

Originally Posted by JasonTX

There's just know way, if I didn't find fault during the pregame walk thru, that I then penalized them at the end of the game like that. Let alone, flag it because a coach points it out. We'll do the officiating and let them do the coaching.

So you make sure that each player is wearing the 7 required pads in his pants? You really don't think that there is a chance that one of the 70 players on the team is only wearing 6 and you missed it before the game?

And if you're not calling a foul at the end of the game, what are you going to do? Allow this player to play when you know he isn't legal? That isn't a good idea. Your best choice would be to call the foul, if teams don't want to be penalized they can wear the required equipment.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by LDUB

I don't know how it is in Texas, but around here most teams wear all the required equipment. Saying your are going to check one team (you are only checking players, not reserves) and find something wrong is a stretch



So you make sure that each player is wearing the 7 required pads in his pants? You really don't think that there is a chance that one of the 70 players on the team is only wearing 6 and you missed it before the game?

And if you're not calling a foul at the end of the game, what are you going to do? Allow this player to play when you know he isn't legal? That isn't a good idea. Your best choice would be to call the foul, if teams don't want to be penalized they can wear the required equipment.

I'm just saying I don't think it is right for the coach to tell the official what to enforce. Do we call everything "by the book". No. We use common sense in certain situations. The intent of any required equipment rule is to prevent a player from being injured. As I commented on another forum about this subject, I think that we should do everything possible to get the situation corrected. If we've gone all game long without doing penalizing them and apparently that coach knew about it all game long and waited until the end of the game to point it out is just plain wrong. If he was truly concerned about the well-being of that player then he would have pointed it out when he first noticed it. I'd have to have some proof he wasn't wearing one. Call a timeout and walk the kid to his bench to "check" and see if he has the pad on. Don't just take the other coaches word. Let them correct it and move on with the game. Then go to the other coach and tell him, "Coach we appreciate you pointing out the potentional unsafe condition of that player. Safety is our number one goal and we got it corrected thanks to your help. Without you pointing that out he could have suffered a serious injury. The coach of the other team asked me to thank you looking out for his players." At least under NCAA rules, if we are going to flag this then it will be just a charged timeout to that team and only a 5 yard penalty if they don't have timeouts.

[Refster]

Wow! Not a good situation to be in.

[waltjp]

Jason, like it or not, if the opposing coach points out that a player is not wearing the required equipment and he participated in the previous play I don't see how you can't enforce the penalty. The coach was probably told by one of his own players that the opposing player was lacking the piece of equipment. The coach has now informed you that he suspects that the equipment is missing and your inspection confirms it to be true.

Are you going to tell the coach that he's right but you're going to ignore the rule and not penalize?

It's not an enviable position to be in but the opposing coach was asked before the game if all of his players were properly equipped. Presumably, he said 'yes'.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

I'm just saying I don't think it is right for the coach to tell the official what to enforce.

The coach isn't telling the officials what to enforce. The other team isn't following the rules and the coach pointed it out to the official.

[Welpe]

I think if this player did not participate in the previous down, you have rule support from case book play 1.5.1G (a) to send the player off to have it corrected. If he did participate and you know for a fact he did, you don't have much choice on this by rule.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I think if this player did not participate in the previous down...

I agree except I would state, "I think if we did not specifically see this player participate on the previous down, and if we did not specifically see during at time that the equipment was missing..." Heck, with a coach like this, I wouldn't put it past him to have stolen the pad on the last play.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

I agree except I would state, "I think if we did not specifically see this player participate on the previous down, and if we did not specifically see during at time that the equipment was missing..." Heck, with a coach like this, I wouldn't put it past him to have stolen the pad on the last play.

How do you steal a tailbone pad when a guy is wearing it?

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I think if this player did not participate in the previous down, you have rule support from case book play 1.5.1G (a) to send the player off to have it corrected. If he did participate and you know for a fact he did, you don't have much choice on this by rule.

I agree and am posting the rule for those without access to a book.
1-5-5 "When any required player equipment is missing or when illegal equipment is found, correction shall be made before participation. An official’s time-out shall be declared to permit prompt repair of equipment which becomes illegal or defective through use. (See 3-5-2b, 5b and 7f)"

I do not think you can delay the ready in this situation. The equipment did not become illegal or defective through use. So I would go ahead with the ready. If they can get a pad in and get the ball snapped within 25, all is well. Otherwise, they can spend a timeout or take the delay penalty.

[ajmc]

Any statement can be taken to an extreme where it becomes counterproductive. "We need to look for ways to have a good game and NOT impact the outcome." is absolutely correct, unless of course, you extend it far beyond what it was intended to suggest.

We are absolutely "out there to do what is fair" as directed by the rules and our common sense application of those rules. Common sense and an understanding of why we're there may well be our most important contribution to the game. Managing the game in compliance with the rules is the stated objective, but not a single one of us, knows the rules so well that we can guarantee absolutely correct compliance in every situation, no matter how unique or rare.

Our role is to make decisions (hopefully informed decisions) instantly in response to any number of situations we may never have confronted before. We do not have the luxury of detailed perusal of the rules for each decision, other than what exists in our personal memory banks.

There will be times when those memory banks, including those of all crew mwmbers, simply don't produce a difinitive answer, and all we're left with is our own common sense, an understanding of the object of the game and a personal sense of fairness, to get us through.

Despite all the hype and pressure some choose to place on the outcome of any High School (even College or Professional) football game, it's not going to really effect how the sun comes up tomorrow.

[daggo66]

Originally Posted by Blue37

I agree and am posting the rule for those without access to a book.
1-5-5 "When any required player equipment is missing or when illegal equipment is found, correction shall be made before participation. An official’s time-out shall be declared to permit prompt repair of equipment which becomes illegal or defective through use. (See 3-5-2b, 5b and 7f)"

I do not think you can delay the ready in this situation. The equipment did not become illegal or defective through use. So I would go ahead with the ready. If they can get a pad in and get the ball snapped within 25, all is well. Otherwise, they can spend a timeout or take the delay penalty.

You are forgetting that 1.5.5 comes with a USC penalty enforcement.