putting up with lippy players...
 

Reffing a recent sophomore game, one player, towards the end of what would be a lopsided victory for his team, barked at me about being held on the previous play by yelling, "You gotta be kidding me! You didn't see him holding?" I chewed on him some, told him not to address officials in such a way, etc., and chased him back to the huddle. If that were in a basketball game, I would have given him a technical foul without even hesitating. It does seem like football players and coaches can 'get away' with a little more than what is permitted by many officials in basketball. Why is that? Does b-ball require tighter control? Is it the close quarters we're in terms of being closer to the action with the players and fans? Or do the holidays make me less patient with people and I'm inclined to put up with less at the basketball game?

Fewer players in basketball, I think. It's not as aggressive a game. Football lasts longer (usually), hits harder, emotions run higher.

That said, it seems to me like basketball coaches will get in your face more, maybe because of the closer quarters. Fans, too (there's no track separating the stands from the field - not to mention then a team bench area).

They always say to not have "rabbit ears" and some stuff you let go as heat of the moment stuff, but, as Barney Fife said, some stuff you've got to nip in the bud. Addressing an official in a disrespectful manner would be an instant flag on an adult coach, but it's very definitely at least stern talking to when it comes from a 15-year-old.

I'd just tell him to worry about playing the game and less about us and walk away.

Any personal stuff or profanity would get flagged. I'm less likely to take nonsense from a youth player than I would be an adult coach.

"You just play football, young man, and let me worry about the officiating."

Let the coach know...
 

As a player, i was coached not to say a word to the officials, unless I was addressed by them. At first, I was astounded by the talk the players directed to the officials, until I realized they are not coached not to talk to the officials.
I generally try not to raise my voice to the players (I have seen some officials end up looking worse than the offender by having his own tantrum), but let the coach know his player is walking a fine line. When this does not take care of a problem (usually it does), I can throw my flag with no emotion attached, because I have tried to take care of the problem in a professional manner....but man....I have to admit, I hate the lip (just ask my thirteen year old boy).
cheers,
tro

Mr. Captain, please have a talk with number 55 so we don't have any problems.

Or, you could wait until the kid misses a tackle and then say, "You gotta be kidding me, you couldn't make that tackle? The guy was right there!" ;)

I know, I know, high road.

How much lip to take from any player is a purely personal decision, just like how much lip you will listen to from your own children. You are not expected, or required, to take ANY.

Considering the emotion of the game you might consider the circumstances and allow one comment to pass, with only a stern warning that such behavior is unacceptable, which is best delivered person to person using your "little" voice. Often the reaction to this advice goes a long way in determining if that player continues to play.

The important thing is that it is not a debate, or even a two-way conversation, and the player must understand and accept that he is not speak to you in that manner again, about anything.

The culture of football (vies a vie attitudes to officials) isn't perfect, but it's miles ahead of hockey for example, and part of the reason they have a much harder time finding and retaining officials. I'll get the odd lip from kids on the field (all 110 yards of it), but coaches are still the bigger problem.

As I tell our newbies, "don't have rabbit ears where you're near the bench, but if it's getting to be too much (i.e: affecting your game), bang 'em!". It's amazing what the flag and the 10 can do to shut up a bench.

After all, we have an unlimited number of flags...and sometimes quietly telling a coach that will bring the peace and quiet you need to do a good job.

Having said that, when I was a player (waaaaaaay back when) it WAS different. I remember getting an OC from Abe Kovnats (famous CFL official of the 50's and 60's) in High School for merely shaking my head about a call he made.....how times have changed!

Thanks...and I'll go back to my rocking chair now..time for "Matlock"!

So you do football and basketball, let things go in football that you would T in basketball, and wonder why officials let stuff go in football? Hmmm, sounds like you'd be the person with the better answer.

Me, I don't think I would have given that comment a notice in any sport, but I don't do basketball. The player was frustrated by the lopsided victory. I might of said, "Who was holding you? ... I'll watch him close." (Either he'll think I care or I might watch close and see I missed something.)

You don't have a flag? :)

They only get away with what you let them get away with.

I always talk to the coach in pregame and ask for his assistance in dealing with his players. Most coaches would be more than thankful if we could tell them so they could handle any "lippy" players so what we can prevent from throwing a flag. Be professional and don't snap at those players. I agree with SC Ump. Ask him for a number and let him know you will watch for it. If it's really bad, just tell him you didn't understand him clearly and would he mind repeating it. Chances are he'll keep it to himself, but then I'd still tell the coach about it.

I was taught not to bring up "what ifs/ possible negatives" in any sports pregame with coaches. Do you really think that "asking for assistance" means anything to a coach who's thinking about the game? Seems like a waste of time and un-needed.....

It depends upon the tone of voice. A player who yells that toward me first gets a look and usually if the player has any smarts he understands what the look means. If he keeps chattering he gets a flag. I recall only one time in the past five years giving one of those.

Having been officiating several sports over 34 years starting with basketball in Ohio and Michigan in the mid to late 70s I have seen a transformation of athletic misbehavior from region to region and over time. There was a time when athletes did not say a word at the high school level, even coaches showed a high level of respect. Having been in New York now for a quarter of a century doing football the norm of disrepect has moved higher.

A few weeks ago I did a youth game and the team was lousy playing a well coached team. I threw an obvious BIB and that started the head coach. He mouthed from a minute in the first quarter through the half until middle of the third quarter about everything. He questioned why does his team have 7 penalties and the other team none. Being polite I did not answer because it was obvious. Finally the nerves were almost frayed and for my own sanity I confronted him and said I had heard enough, a key that should mean, shut up. Not him, he started to say another sentence and that was it. USC. He was so upset he went home on his own saving me another penalty.

Often, it's not what is said, it's how it is said.

Answer to those way ahead
 

When a player from a team that's comfortly ahead late in the game cries about wanting a flag, I just tell them that if I throw a flag I have to stop the clock, and his team is better served with the clock running.

"You want that clock to keep running, right?"

"Yes sir." is the typical conversation.

Obviously that is not a water tight remark, but it's always worked.

Totally agree!!!!

When we were kids we were allowed to say two things to officials, "yes sir" and "no sir."

Wow, your coach had you on a really short leash. We were also allowed to say, "Thank you, sir."

My hockey officiating friends in Ontario tell me that Bob Dylan is in the house.

Consider this one stolen!

So very true! :p

Thanks for the comments. I was trying to differentiate between the varying arenas in which we find ourselves when officiating, whether it be football, basketball, baseball, wrestling or wherever. This sit. happened on the football field, was towards one end of the field and was loud and somewhat disrespectful. Chances are, it was heard only by the players on the field and maybe the chain crew. If the same question had been asked in the same manner on a basketball floor, I would have whacked him with a technical foul.

Believe me, he got put in his place without needing a flag and I didn't hear from him over the last three minutes of the game in which his team won. If someone politely asks for me to watch for holding, I'll give him the who, what, where, etc to try and deal with it. This was different, I used all the enforcement I needed for that particular moment. It was one of those 'how it was said' moments.

More times than not the coach is usually the one that asks us first to get him a # of any of his players who start to get out of hand. I also think its a good way to open the doors to communication and it lets the coach know that we are there to communicate with them. Those are his players, not mine, so I don't have any right to vocally discipline them. I can flag them, but I'd much rather the coach prevent that if at all possible.

My favorite
 

My favorite is always to say to the head coach: "Coach, No. 54 is getting a little out of hand out there. Do you want to talk to him or would you prefer I just penalize him 15 yards?"

Player gets replaced and gets a butt-chewing on the sideline. 100% of the time. Never fails to solve the problem.

I've got no problem with the concept of involving a coach, or allowing him first crack at disciplining a player who has become lippy, but suggesting officials, "don't have any right to vocally discipline them" goes way too far.

I'm not talking about dressing a player down or lengthy lectures, but the decision what to say, and when to choose a corrective comment over a USC flag is a decision made entirely by the covering official, as he alone decides circumstances dictate.

A player's parents and coach get to decide what constitutes acceptable comments a player makes to them, as the standard as to what is acceptable dialogue directed to an official is set exclusively by that official.

The responsibility for maintaining civility and control of a game rests with officials alone, as do the tactics we decide to employ to accomplish those objectives. Players must respect the authority given to officials as the adult supervisors and monitors of the civility of the game. Especially at the HS level that respect must be maintained as directly and necessary, with as little disruption, as deemed appropriate for each circumstance.

Damn, I should have used that last night. But the lippy players in question were from the other sideline.

I agree. It's important that we don't tell the coach that he needs to or should take the kid out of the game though. If we phrase it like that, and the coach takes the player out then any goof up by his sub will be our fault in the coach's mind because we "made" him make a substitution. Refs who say something like "coach, either you take him out or .... " are handling it wrong.