Horse Collar
 

NCAA. Did anyone see the horse collar call in the Michigan vs. Notre Dame game? Did that qualify? He didn't pull the runner down; just sort of a grab and release. Thanks.......

Did not see it.

But as described that would not apply. Must be grab and immediately pull down.

He did go down, but not immediately. I had my questions about the call too. Then again there is where some judgment comes into play.

Peace

I watched the game and am a Michigan fan. I thought it was a horse collar. The tackler took down the ball carrier by the back of the jersey.

my understanding is "back of the jersey" is not the definition of horse collar.

on another note, is there a Fed rule for horsecollar?

No FED rule but sure it will be coming someday

No horse Collar in NFHS.

For NCAA:

All players are prohibited from grabbing the inside back collar of the
shoulder pads or jersey, or the inside collar of the side of the shoulder
pads or jersey, and immediately pulling the runner down. This does not
apply to a runner who is inside the tackle box or to a quarterback who is
in the pocket.

thanks guys...I told that to a coach last Friday night (there wasn't a horsecollar rule in HS football) and he didn't believe me...I tried looking and couldn't find anything...thanks for the info.

Ever since the NFL rule came into effect we have been hearing it at the youth level (NFHS Rules). We explain it at the beginning of the season in front of all the coaches, but it doesn't matter, it still becomes an issue. Recently we had a coach complain, so we sent an email to the heads of all of the organizations involved. There were a couple of replies, but none that could match the following from one of the coaches to the others:

Well, at the very least, your parents can call it right. I had a parent complain that his kid was "Whores Hollered" tackled.
When I asked what that was, he seriously replied, "You know like in the NFL. You grab 'em by the neck like you would to make a whore holler."

I'm not even going to say what state the father recently moved from.

I just wondered;
a. Where he'd heard that peculiar term before, and,
b. How often he'd employed such a move.

Thank you for this emphasis. There will be and has been widespread misunderstanding of this rule. The confusion tends to be mistakenly applying the criteria for a facemask foul to the horse collar penalty.

I saw it. The runner was pulled down as he went out of bounds, but it wasn't clear to me whether that counts as immediate.

So if the coaches are so overwhelmingly (Or are they?) in favor of such a rule, why doesn't their league adopt it? If they're Pop Warner they can't, but if they're AYF or just plain independent they can.

Robert

Mine did in their amendments to the national rules which otherwise just deals with youth stuff like ball carrier weight etc.

In other words, a local group who simply feels they know better than a national organization. Typical.

I agree as well, it did not look to be what I would consider immediate. That being said, its a learning period for officials. I wonder how widespread this problem foul was for the NCAA to have been requested to implement it.

I'd be willing to bet the 5 yard FM foul will be return in a couple seasons.

Yup, and then you're stuck with a bunch of rules that are poorly worded and are usually ambiguous. As you know, also the bane to many baseball umpires. Thankfully the local youth league here knows better.

another horsecollar question
 

Maybe I should start a new thread since this question doesn't deal with the game in question but it is a horsecollar question.

NCAA rules

Situation in an adult league game yesterday. The ball carrier is wrapped up by a player and is still pushing forward so progress is not stopped. Another B player comes in and grabs the side of the shoulder pads and pulls the runner down. I passed on the call as I understood the rule to be intended for a moving runner who is yanked back by the shoulder pads. A safety foul in my mind. The LJ on the other side of the field throws the flag and calls it. We come together and I make my case for why I passed on the call but both the LJ, U and R agreed that the correct call was made. After the game the U said he passed on it too but technically the LJ was correct. I'm not trying to fight to be right but is this a call I completely messed up? I really try to enforce the rules properly without taking over the game. Where is my view on this foul wrong?

Just trying to get better here.

Thanks for your replies.

Stick to your guns. This does not meet the requirements for a horse collar tackle based on the way you described it.

They can be, but don't have to be. The Northern States Football League's rules referenced one of the major codes and specified the exact wording of its amendments and where they would be inserted. (They also had an informal summary of their differences from Fed, NCAA, and NFL.)

True, they were the only minor league organiz'n I ever saw do that. And apparently even the XFL's supposed official rules were written informally AFAICT. But just because you're a small time operation doesn't mean you have to have ambiguous or poorly worded rules. Hell, with the way the NFL book is written today (with lots of undefined but should-be-defined terms), I could even see a minor league's "amending" the NFL rules to clarify them!

Robert

I don't like the rule. I've had maybe 2 or 3 fouls on this during this year and we've passed on another 4 or 5. But recently in a varsity game, the defender pulled the runner down by the shirt -- not the collar but the middle back of the shirt -- and did the 'Roy Williams underneath the back of the legs' technique. To me, this was a more dangerous tackle than any horse collar but it didn't meet the requirement of the rule and I didn't rule it otherwise a personal foul, so it wasn't called.

The horse collar is legal in FED rules only for certain coaches, fans and parents who believe it is.

Of course, their rule book is a combination of NCAA and NFL rules with a little FED sprinkled in.