MNF Minn @ GB Over Officiated?
 

I know it was the first real game of the season, but did anyone else think the crew was over officiating the game? They had to set a record for flags. Seemed like there was one on every play. I was at a recreation establishment and couldn't hear so I have no idea of actual amount of flags or even what they all were as I was easily distracted.

Mregor

Why does the conclusion have to be over-officiating? I will say this game appeared to have the most penalties with 21. The Dallas-Cleveland game had 20. There were a couple of games this weekend that had 14.

Did it ever occur to you, that maybe the fouls were because the teams did not play very well? I guess it would depend on what kind of fouls took place. I just do not know why we judge how well we officiate a game by the number. For all you know all of the fouls were there and the league would accept every one. Or the crew with 5 fouls might have been accused of missing multiple plays.

Peace

Why are you so defensive Jeff? Did it ever occur to you to read what I wrote? I said that I was not paying that close attention but notice a flag on what seemed to be every play. Just wondering what others thought who actually watched the game. Heck they even had what appeared to be a PF for assiting a teammate in an attempt to block an extra point? There was no flow to the game and since ESPN didn't replay hardly any of the plays when there was a foul, I had no way to confirm. You have serious emotional problems. Please seek immediate help with your condition.

I did not realize that I could not ask you to justify your comments. Was there a play you did not like the way it was called? Was there an interpretation that you did not agree with or understand? I do not think it is defensive to ask you to back up your claim that the game was over-officiated.

You may not realize NFL officials do not have the opportunity to take plays off or turn the other cheek unlike us high school and lower level college officials. If they do, that goes in their game report which can affect everything from their post season opportunities to if they keep their job. So if they called something you do not like, I am sure their higher-ups will agree with your expertise and downgrade the officials for not doing their job. Then again, you were watching the game on TV. ;)

Peace

So, they're supposed to ignore that when they're graded on every single call they make or don't make? It's not an officiating crew's fault if teams foul a lot. I would imagine that hate throwing as bad as the rest of us do.

Perhaps Rut just doesn't like it when people make assumptiolns about officiating when they admittedly aren't paying attention. Perhaps he would rather hear an informed opinion. IDK, maybe that's just the way I am. :)

Since I was asking for an opinion and you didn't even see the game, why even respond?

Since you did not even know what was called, why even start a post? ;)

I do not have to see a game to know what you are trying to imply. And since you did not at the very least hear the commentary or the Referee's explanation, I really do not see why you are any more qualified to talk about the play than I am. You also said you did not see any replays of the fouls. Either you missed the replays or you did not understand what they were showing.

If you are offended by people asking you questions, then this is certainly the wrong place to come for sure.

Peace

I saw the game. A few illegal formations and several defensive offsides were called early. I think it was a sloppy game and the players did not adjust to how closely they may have been calling these two (somewhat judgemental) fouls. After one DOF or IF is called, the players had better WAKE UP and get out of the NZ and make sure the offensive tackles are on the LOS.

I watched enough to know that their assisting the teammate jumper call is not a PF as they called it. I saw an illegal downfield call where the DE stunted and the tackle missed his block and the tackle was not much more than a step accross the LOS and did not continue and they called it ineligible down field (and it was a deep pass and not a screen). I saw at least one DPI that just wasn't there IMO. Have no idea who the crew was as I don't pay that much attention to the numerous officials, and from what I saw, I felt it was over officiated. Totally took away from the game. Or I was drunk, one of the two.

Now some specifics. ;)

Now how do you know what the call was if you were in a bar and did not hear the explanation? What you just described sounds like "leaping" which is a PF under some specific situations.

The make up of crews changes every year. Some people stay together and some people leave to go on other crews. Even if you recognized the Referee, that does not mean he had the same 6 people he had last year on that crew.

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with a DPI call, but why was it missed? Or is that too much of an attack? After all you did say you were drunk.

Peace

They announced it as "leverage" which is correct in the NFL. The IDF was correct, I rewinded my tape of it and the player was 3 yards past the LOS on the play. I am SURE, as I stopped the tape at the spot when the pass was thrown.

Since both those plays were negative against GB, I'd say you are a Packer fan who as you said "was probably drunk."

You, the Packer fan, did not mention the two DPI's that on replay looked like they "were there" and would have gone against the Packers. The talking heads even said, "I think the Vikings had a reason to be complaining" but I don't pay attention to them much. The non DPI calls were tough ones that could have gone either way probably.

Rut stated the crew makeup changes every year, that is true. I know for a fact from several NFL officials I know that they hardly ever have the same 7 from one year to the next.

Redundant

Crews 1994 - 2004:

http://members.tripod.com/refereestats/crewArc.htm

Priceless.

You must have been drunk, from Wisconsin or both! :)

They showed the replay twice on the TD pass to Donald Driver. Two linemen were a step across the LOS but a second linemen was FIVE yards across the LOS. Sorry but that's ineligible downfield.

There was an ineligible downfield on a WR screen pass that I didn't understand as the ball didn't cross the NZ. And there was a DPI call on Green Bay when WR Wade was pulled down by his left arm while running a cross that was NOT called. I thought to myself, "Somebody will get gig for that one."

But over officiated? No. These guys are scrutinized on every play. If you see a foul, you'd better call it. As MJT said, sloppy play.

And the assisting the jumper, or leverage as it was announced, is a PF in NFL. Might want to get your rules straight.

Under NFL rules, the pass does not need to cross the line of scrimmage in order to have IDF.

FYI, most penalties, both teams in an NFL game:

37 Cleveland (21) vs. Chi. Bears (16), Nov. 25, 1951
35 Tampa Bay (20) vs. Seattle (15), Oct. 17, 1976*
34 San Francisco (22) vs. Buffalo (12), Oct. 4, 1998

*EDIT: The official play-by-play of this one is a bit confusing but doesn't list 20 penalties for Tampa Bay (it does list 15 for Seattle).

TB was hit for:

8 offensive holding calls
3 offsides/encroachments
2 personal fouls
1 illegal motion
1 face mask
1 roughing the passer
1 illegal procedure
1 unsportsmanlike conduct

Seattle was hit for:
5 offensive holdings
2 defensive holdings
2 personal fouls
2 delay of game
1 offside
1 false start
1 illegal use of hands

There was also offsetting holding calls on one play, and a notation that an ineligible receiver downfield call on Tampa Bay was "over-ruled by" a clipping foul on Seattle. Did they used to do it that way, where if one foul carried more yardage as a penalty, it would trump one on the other team? Strange.

That's sloppy, expansion-team football from 1976.

For whatever reason the Viking organization commit’s a penalty on nearly every play. Neutral zone infractions by 3 out of 4 defensive lineman are common place especially in or near the red zone. Recently they feel the popularity of Adrian Peterson gives them the right to steer defenders by grabbing the shoulders. I have no idea what justification they have for hooking (wizard - ing) defensive ends on passing plays. I don’t know why they have been allowed to do this routinely. They have no incentive to stop because they get caught less than 1 out of 10 times. The Packers naturally have to somehow compete with these unfair advantages often by committing a few infractions in the spirit of fair play. The officials UNDER-officiated the Vikings which led the game to deteriorate into near chaos.

So all those screen passes I've seen in the NFL over the years were illegal but uncalled?

I was under the impression plays with passes behind the LOS are technically runs. Hence screens, jailbreaks, shuffle passes, etc.

A forward pass is a forward pass. The rules are slightly different if the pass does not go beyond the neutral zone.

Do you understand that the NFL grades each official on each down of the game? There are some officials who do not mess up a foul call/no call situation over the entire season. These officials are not missing 9 out of 10 fouls.

HAHAHA

You might be thinking of 'shovel passes', where the QB "shovels" it rather than throwing it overhand to the receiver. ;)

There was a local annoucer in PA who called it the 'shuttle pass.' :cool:

I just love these discussions especially by officials who should know better.

The number of penalties called is not so much a reflection of the officiating crew but more of the team being penalized. Officials do not commit penalties, players andtheir teams do.

I did not watch the entire Monday Night game but there were a number of procedural penalties. Officials call these because they occur. These are an indication to the coaching staff, you got some work to do.

A true indication of an official's work is the number of no-calls and calls.

This is way off the mark.:rolleyes:

It was under-officiated because the NFL no longer needs to give the Packers special treatment since Brett Favre left.;)

And what's "wizarding"? Do they send the DE to a different dimension?

A wizard is a wrestling move that involves clamping on an arm. If I put a wizard on you your arm would be in my armpit with my elbow joint holding/traping it there.

All three have been used. ‘Shuttle’ was used widely not just by the announcer.

They really can't grade offensive holding calls. I know it’s difficult if not impossible to do. The term “it happens on every play” is a term for a reason. The point is they push it and influence the play.

Oh brother!!! :rolleyes:

Peace

*correction: they can grade the calls, how to grade the non calls? it is possible but the percentage and consistency gets mucky.

You should know the post was tongue and cheek and worded in the best homer language I could come up with.

It happens all the time. I highly encourage you to obtain Matt Sumstine's videos from the Aloha Clinics. In these videos, he highlights numerous plays that at first blush look like penalties but after further examination, they really aren't. He will often comment something along the lines "Good no-call, that is a block from the side, not the back." etc.

A good no call on a possible hold would be passing on something such as a slight jersey tug that did not impede the defender, or a hold far away from the point of attack.

Seth, "wizarding" is when you send the DE to the Washington Wizards for a season. Duh. :p

Common errors are still just that.

I just checked with an NFL official I know. Interior linemen are not allowed any more than 1 yard beyond the line of scrimmage before any pass is thrown (behind or beyond the neutral zone). They are not allowed to block until the pass is caught but they give them a little leeway with this. So if you are seeing this and it isn't being called, someone's getting dinged. :)

REPLY BBR...unless I'm mistaken, in NFL rules, linemen are restricted to their side of the neutral zone even on passes that don't cross the LOS.

I'm sorry, but there are so many things you say in these series of posts that are just rediculous. Here are some or your highlights.

For whatever reason the Viking organization commit’s a penalty on nearly every play. Neutral zone infractions by 3 out of 4 defensive lineman are common place especially in or near the red zone. Recently they feel the popularity of Adrian Peterson gives them the right to steer defenders by grabbing the shoulders. I have no idea what justification they have for hooking (wizard - ing) defensive ends on passing plays. I don’t know why they have been allowed to do this routinely. They have no incentive to stop because they get caught less than 1 out of 10 times. The Packers naturally have to somehow compete with these unfair advantages often by committing a few infractions in the spirit of fair play. The officials UNDER-officiated the Vikings which led the game to deteriorate into near chaos.
This whole post is just silly.

I was under the impression plays with passes behind the LOS are technically runs. Hence screens, jailbreaks, shuffle passes, etc.
Wrong.

They really can't grade offensive holding calls. I know it’s difficult if not impossible to do. The term “it happens on every play” is a term for a reason. The point is they push it and influence the play.
If this was the case, how would they ever grade R's or U's in the NFL or D1?


They can grade the calls, how to grade the non calls? it is possible but the percentage and consistency gets mucky.
They know exactly what to look for on holds, and are shown plays in their meetings every year that are prepared by their supervisors.

Are you sure you're not talking about a whizzer?

You implied that it was impossible for them to miss a lot of holding calls based on them being reviewed by people that have watched a video?

Not exactly.

NFL officials are very good at what they do. I read somewhere that they get about 98.5% of their foul call/no call situations correct.

So our options are to believe you, the random guy who says a lot of fouls went uncalled, or to believe that the officials got the vast majority of them correct as they always do.

They don't miss many. I have 12 DVD's from NFL official I know and many of them have voiceover by the supervisor. They will show 10-15 plays and say if they want that to be called holding, and why or why not.

ok. so do they say this isn't holding because he didn't gain advantage and things like that?

Yes, that is one thing. Some other examaples are
- it is not at the point of attack, although they don't make that mistake often
- the defender did a rip technique, so he put himself in that position
- it is a double team, so no hold unless they take him to the ground
- the hold occurred the same time as a sack was occurring