Federation version of illegal contact downfield

[BigGref]

How often, if at all, does everyone call the Illegal use of hands/arms for a defender hitting a offensive player who is no longer a potential blocker (as in 9-3-2d)? What gauge do you use, ie NFL uses 5 yd with pretty much any contact deemed illegal?

[JRutledge]

All I use is that if the receiver clearly running a route or trying to block the defender. This can happen anywhere on the field. There is no yard requirement.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

I've never seen it called. Usually, if a pass is thrown, it happens pretty quickly. There's not a lot of time for the illegal use to occur.

When it does happen, it usually ends up being a holding call on the defense.

[MNBlue]

When I was a wing, I would generally have to call it once or twice a season. Anywhere on the field, if the 'A' player is no longer a potential blocker, and the 'B' player tries to push him off his route, you have illegal use of hands.

It happens quite a lot with underclassmen who don't know how to play defense.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

When I was a wing, I would generally have to call it once or twice a season. Anywhere on the field, if the 'A' player is no longer a potential blocker, and the 'B' player tries to push him off his route, you have illegal use of hands.

What if under the same circumstance he makes a shoulder block with hands kept close to his body? For instance, running parallel near the sideline, the defender with inside position shoulders the A player so he steps out of bounds. Or near the end line, he shoulder blocks him over it.

I know that the old rule in all the codes specifically referred to illegal use of hands, and specifically allowed a block under the old rules (liberalized everywhere else) where the hands had to be kept close to the body, palms inward. And then some time in the 1980s or maybe the early '90s, the NFL, without much fanfare, changed their rule to "illegal use of the hands, arms, or body". They didn't highlight that last bit to the fans because apparently it was thought that a clean body block by defenders never occurred anyway (BBW had already been banned vs. potential receivers). I assume from various remarks that NCAA eventually followed suit; Fed too?

Robert

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

When I was a wing, I would generally have to call it once or twice a season. Anywhere on the field, if the 'A' player is no longer a potential blocker, and the 'B' player tries to push him off his route, you have illegal use of hands.

It happens quite a lot with underclassmen who don't know how to play defense.

I have called it multiple times a season now, because more teams are passing across the board. There was a time you would be lucky if both teams passed more than 10-15 times. Yesterday one of the teams passed on every down. The opportunities have gone up greatly. I usually give the benefit of the doubt if it is unclear to me if the receiver is running a route.

Peace

[Sonofanump]

I think that once the A player/receiver is even with or past the defender and in his route, then he is no longer a blocker/ can not be contacted.

I am struggling with this in developing a philosophy, so if you think I am wrong help me out here.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

I think that once the A player/receiver is even with or past the defender and in his route, then he is no longer a blocker/ can not be contacted.

I am struggling with this in developing a philosophy, so if you think I am wrong help me out here.

That is one way to help you decide what should or should not happen. Certainly if a receiver is even with a defender, then that would be an easier call. The problem is receivers also run hooks and comeback routes and they would never come side by side to a defender. I have found that to be only a way to help with the call. That is not an absolute.

Peace

[waltjp]

My HL called this on Friday night. The receiver had made his cut and was working across the field. A defensive back come up and hit the receiver in the back and knocked him down.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

What if under the same circumstance he makes a shoulder block with hands kept close to his body? For instance, running parallel near the sideline, the defender with inside position shoulders the A player so he steps out of bounds. Or near the end line, he shoulder blocks him over it.

I know that the old rule in all the codes specifically referred to illegal use of hands, and specifically allowed a block under the old rules (liberalized everywhere else) where the hands had to be kept close to the body, palms inward. And then some time in the 1980s or maybe the early '90s, the NFL, without much fanfare, changed their rule to "illegal use of the hands, arms, or body". They didn't highlight that last bit to the fans because apparently it was thought that a clean body block by defenders never occurred anyway (BBW had already been banned vs. potential receivers). I assume from various remarks that NCAA eventually followed suit; Fed too?

Robert

My understanding of the rule is that if the receiver is 'no longer a potential blocker' the defense is not allowed to touch him. Definitely some judgement there, but, like Rut, if the receiver is parallel to the defender, or in my judgement, no longer attempting to block him, I will probably determine that he is no longer a potential blocker and give the receiver the benefit of the doubt.

[ajmc]

The principle is rather direct. Giving the defense the benefit of the doubt, if the potential receiver is a possible threat to the defender, the defender has a right to protect himself. When that receiver stops being a potential threat, the defender no longer can claim self defense.

When a receiver is moving away from a defender, deliberately impeding him is defensive holding (presuming the ball has yet to be thrown). Holding, in this context, includes pushing, knocking off stride with a shoulder of hip or any action that you decide is not related to the receiver being a potential threat.

No two acts are exactly alike and each one requires a unique judgment of what you witness is happening.

[cdoug]

Originally Posted by ajmc

The principle is rather direct. Giving the defense the benefit of the doubt, if the potential receiver is a possible threat to the defender, the defender has a right to protect himself. When that receiver stops being a potential threat, the defender no longer can claim self defense.

When a receiver is moving away from a defender, deliberately impeding him is defensive holding (presuming the ball has yet to be thrown). Holding, in this context, includes pushing, knocking off stride with a shoulder of hip or any action that you decide is not related to the receiver being a potential threat.

No two acts are exactly alike and each one requires a unique judgment of what you witness is happening.

Is the in HS and college or just one or the other?

[Gmoore]

The redding study guide states that once the reciever reaches the same yardage mark as the defender,he is no longer a blocker

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

What if under the same circumstance he makes a shoulder block with hands kept close to his body? For instance, running parallel near the sideline, the defender with inside position shoulders the A player so he steps out of bounds. Or near the end line, he shoulder blocks him over it.

I know that the old rule in all the codes specifically referred to illegal use of hands, and specifically allowed a block under the old rules (liberalized everywhere else) where the hands had to be kept close to the body, palms inward. And then some time in the 1980s or maybe the early '90s, the NFL, without much fanfare, changed their rule to "illegal use of the hands, arms, or body". They didn't highlight that last bit to the fans because apparently it was thought that a clean body block by defenders never occurred anyway (BBW had already been banned vs. potential receivers). I assume from various remarks that NCAA eventually followed suit; Fed too?

Robert

Robert, It's still illegal use of the hands even if he doesn't use his hands. He can't contact the receiver if the receiver is no longer a potential blocker.

9-2-3-d. A defensive player shall not contact an eligible receiver who is no longer a potential blocker. The penalty is illegal use of the hands or arms.

[grantsrc]

I agree with all that has been said so far. I don't see this too much, nor have I called it in HS ball. There are times where I will tell the defensive player and the D backs coach that his players need to use legal blocking techniques and allow the receiver to run his route once he is even with the defender.

There was a game a few seasons back where the defense man handled the receivers, but did so all legally. They would stay in front of the receiver, engage him, and not let him run his route, all within the rules. It totally threw the offense off.