Punt Question

[bossman72]

NCAA Rules:

Team lines up in spread punt formation. Would it be legal for the guard to shift to the QB position (under center) assuming one or more of the up-backs move onto the line of scrimmage?

When would this be illegal?

Thank you!!

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by bossman72

NCAA Rules:

Team lines up in spread punt formation. Would it be legal for the guard to shift to the QB position (under center) assuming one or more of the up-backs move onto the line of scrimmage?

When would this be illegal?

Thank you!!

It could be done legally but would require that there be 5 players numbered 50 - 79 on the LOS and would also require the shift be done legally, i.e. smoothly (not simulating the start of the snap) and that the "guard" not have been "locked in" yet by putting his hand down or near the ground. There are a lot of moving parts and considerations if they want to do this legally. What would be the intent behind it anyway?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Team lines up in spread punt formation. Would it be legal for the guard to shift to the QB position (under center) assuming one or more of the up-backs move onto the line of scrimmage?

CANADIAN RULING:

Legal. Players may need to report their status as ineligible or eligible.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by TXMike

It could be done legally but would require that there be 5 players numbered 50 - 79 on the LOS and would also require the shift be done legally, i.e. smoothly (not simulating the start of the snap) and that the "guard" not have been "locked in" yet by putting his hand down or near the ground. There are a lot of moving parts and considerations if they want to do this legally. What would be the intent behind it anyway?

Probably to confuse the defense as to where the snap was going, but it'd have to be described more fully. What you have to do is shift the guard in such a way that the defense thinks he's just adjusting his feet, and he then reaches to his side and under center for the snap. He has to fix it so his head was initially just barely breaking the plane of the snapper's waist, and then after the shift no longer does so and puts the slightest bit of daylight between his foremost point and the nearest lineman, who would almost certainly be the snapper. The provision allowing linemen to lock legs with the snapper aids this deception.

Robert

[bossman72]

Ok, what this play is designed for is to run a QB sneak on say a 4th and 1. Our team lines up in a spread punt formation (much like you see WVU and other colleges run) with everyone on the line having a number under 50, except the center. We have 3 blocking backs 6 yds deep, two have numbers under 50 and one is number 83.

Once we are lined up, we call "shift" and the right guard (#15) drops off the line and goes under center and the 3 blocking backs shift up onto the line of scrimmage. Once everyone is set for a full second, we snap the ball and run a QB sneak with everyone wedge blocking.

I hope that clears up the picture.

[Robert Goodman]

Yes, pretty much as I thought only not as sneaky.

I may run plays like that this year, especially if they don't have such shirt number rules at Pee Wee level in the circuit we're playing in. (The head of our program is organizing the league, so I ought to be able to find out.)

Our system incorporates principles of wing T, widesaddle T, single wing, and even a little bit of rugby. Our QB's going to be behind a guard and facing a sideline and function on many plays as a blocking back, complementary to the pulling guard on the opposite side of center, who'll line up as far back as legal and locking legs with the center. I intend to sub them for each other, and maybe if I want to get tricky I'll shift the QB up into the line (facing forward) and the pulling guard just a tad farther back to take the snap.

Robert

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Ok, what this play is designed for is to run a QB sneak on say a 4th and 1. Our team lines up in a spread punt formation (much like you see WVU and other colleges run) with everyone on the line having a number under 50, except the center. We have 3 blocking backs 6 yds deep, two have numbers under 50 and one is number 83.

Once we are lined up, we call "shift" and the right guard (#15) drops off the line and goes under center and the 3 blocking backs shift up onto the line of scrimmage. Once everyone is set for a full second, we snap the ball and run a QB sneak with everyone wedge blocking.

I hope that clears up the picture.

You asked for NCAA rules so I assume you are in NCAA school or in HS in Tex or Mass. If so, this will be illegal assuming the snapper is on the ball when everyone is first lined up on the line. If the snapper is just standing up by the ball but not on it, then the play could be done legally. Once the snapper is on the ball, #15 is "locked in" and , although he can move to a new position, it must be on the line and between the 2 ends, i.e. still in an ineligible position, even though has eligible number.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by TXMike

You asked for NCAA rules so I assume you are in NCAA school or in HS in Tex or Mass. If so, this will be illegal assuming the snapper is on the ball when everyone is first lined up on the line. If the snapper is just standing up by the ball but not on it, then the play could be done legally. Once the snapper is on the ball, #15 is "locked in" and , although he can move to a new position, it must be on the line and between the 2 ends, i.e. still in an ineligible position, even though has eligible number.

Thanks Mike. What if the center just stood over the ball and did not put his hands at or below his knees. Would the shift be legal then?