Carrying Multiple Flags
 

In Canada, it is against accepted mechanics to carry more than one flag. Recently, we had a situation where an official threw his flag for a hold and then had a bad late hit out of bounds. The players of the non-offending team for the late hit saw no flag thrown (since the official did not have one) and so ended up being called for Objectional Conduct (your USC).

While the players actions are no excused, the use of a second flag in this instance would have communicated that the late hit was penalized and so the further fouls would not have occurred.

So my question is what is the prevailing opinion on carrying more than one flag south of the border?

I think you will find that most carry two. However even if only one is carried then an act of throwing something, bean bag or hat, must be done to indicate that a second foul has occurred.

It is a standard and accepted practice to carry two flags. It is the official's option on where to carry the flags--at least the places where I've officiated. It is HIGHLY recommended that you stuff the second flag DEEP in your pocket so you don't look like some flag-happy gunslinger.

In the past, before carrying two flags was common, I've seen officials toss a hat for the second foul. Tossing a hat is more demonstrative than a beanbag, especially if you have a BIG second foul to call (like a late hit, etc.).

Maybe our northern friends will change their mechanics thinking if more plays like that occur. I carry two. They are the white ball flags and I carry them on my sides and they cannot be seen at all, but are very easily accessable.

I carry a white ball flag in my belt (right front) I keep a second flag tucked inside my back pocket. Almost never need it but it's nice to have if you do need it.

I have seen some wear one flag tucked in just above the belt buckle. Curiously, they were all happy to see me. :eek:

As a Back Judge I cannot see not using more than one flag. For one it is not unusual in that position to throw a live ball flag and later a dead ball flag. I tend to carry two or three flags with me. I always have one in my belt and the other flags in my front pocket (not seen of course). When I was a Referee I would carry two flags, but almost never have to throw either one of them.

Peace

It will be a cold day in hell before I put white tape on a flag. I'm a referee, there's no need to hide the fact I have and carry a flag.

That said, I do carry two flags - one in the belt and one buried deep in the back pocket. That back pocket one comes out about once every two years.

No white tape for me either and I can't see myself going that route. I, too, carry one in my belt and the other in my back pocket.

Your situation would certainly make sense for them to allow a second flag or clarify a secondary mechanic (i.e. hat, bean bag, etc) for another penalty.

REPLY: One in my belt (no tape, however) and one buried in the back pocket.

I carry two also - one in the belt and one deep in the pocket.

Although it's rarely needed, usually if you do need the second foul it is for something nasty - a late hit, facemask, or a shove, and a flag flying does a better job of stopping problems than a bean bag or hat being tossed. You want the players and coaches to know that you are penalizing the foul.

Same here. I used to "double barrel" it with both up front on either side of my belt, but I moved the second to my back right pocket.

Something I started doing last year and I really like the way it looks and feels, I moved my second bean bag to the back of my belt, just right of center (I'm right handed obviously). I worked deep on Saturdays so I carried two. As for HS, I seldomly need one, or two for that matter, so I might start carrying one this season. Lighten up the load and make me quicker! HA!!

As long as we're talking about doubles, as a LJ I carry a second bean bag. I keep the main one in my belt so I can get to it quickly for fumbles, but on a kick off I take the other one out of my pocket and keep it in my hand for short kicks. If the kick booms away, I can easily slip it back into my pocket and continue working - it's easier for me than trying to get the main one re-tucked into my belt.

You can have many times where it is not something nasty, but the flag will look better than the a hat or bag. A wing can easily have an illegal shift or illegal motion at the snap and then a for the second foul, a hold/DPI/OPI... in which the second flag comes in handy.

If you buy the "white ball" flag, you can put them both on the hip and no one will even see they are there. What I like about that is I don't have a ball flag for one flag and a centerweight flag for the one in your pocket. The flags are totally identical in type and color.

Grant, just consider it resistance training. ;)

I, too, go with one flag in the belt and a flat one in my front pocket. I have one of the white ball flags from Honigs and I think it looks fine (it doesn't seem to weigh enough though). I think my future flag purchases will be straight yellow without tape as I do not like the look of the tape.

I guess I'm the weird one. I only carry one flag. In 12 years I have yet to have a need for a second flag. That said, I know I've whammied myself for this season. I do carry 2 bean bags though.

You do not have to put tape on them, just buy the flags with the white tip or weighted part. :D

Before that I would tape the flags only because I did not want people to easily see when I reached for the flag. Since doing so I have not seen one person every say that you were about to throw a flag and decided not to. It is just one less thing for them to complain about.

Peace

I personally don't see the need for a taped or white balled flag in the first place. Everyone knows we carry them so why go to extra measures to hid it?

As for the reaching aspect, if someone saw me reach and then didn't throw and said something about it, I would respond with "I thought about it more and it wasn't a foul" or something like that. I know some people raise heck about seeing an official reach, or even pull and put away, but I really don't see what the big deal is.

Absolutely 2 flags. One in the belt and the other deep in a pocket.

I'm with Jim D about two beanbags, I work exactly the same beanbag mechanics as he described - taking out the 2nd one from a pocket when I cover kicks. Having it in my hand forces me to remember when I need to use it.

I carry two bags as a referee.

At least once a season one of my guys loses one on a poorly lit or snow covered field and I can help out. I usually keep it in a place where it doesn't get in the way.

Of course, last season I was about 8 minutes before kickoff for a HS playoff game and noticed I didn't have my whistle. Umpire offered me his, but I thought better of it and had game management go to the locker room with directions (and a reminder that the game can't start without the R's whistle :D).

2 flags always, regardless of position. One can be tucked down in front or back pocket. BJ and deep flanks (or LJ in 4 man crew) need 2 bean bags. Classic example: punt where team A illegally touches it (bag it) and then B recovers (bag it).

I have problems with this too. Especially early in the season.

Two flags - second in my back pocket.
Two beanbags - but I don't think I've ever used both on one play.

I'm surprised by how many have written that they would only need a second flag once every x years.

Even just an illegal formation then a facemask on the play would cover it. I don't get to be BJ much, but all other positions seem to have enough possibilities to carry the 2nd.

Isn't your whistle rule number 2? Only preceeded by making sure you zipped your fly? ;)

I'm in the same boat but in basketball. Luckly, I carry a spare in my jacket.

The longer you officiate, the greater the odds you'll forget to address even your Rule #1. Carrying a spare whistle in one of your front pockets won't slow you down much at all.

Rule 1-5-3
 

Says a player cannot wear penalty-marker colored pads or gloves. So does your "white" ball flag make a players white pad, illegal? I know I'm splitting hairs here, but there is a reasonable expectation that officials have penalty markers, the whole "let's cover them up" seems a bit off base. I've seen one sr official have his newbies cover the balls with black tape and then tell them to make the black fit on a black strip on the shirt. Appearance is important, but the goal is to get the call(s) right. Do that enough times and they won't worry about how many flags you carry or if the balls are yellow and showing.

No.

I've never purchased a flag. Thirty-five year ago, when they went from red flags to yellow flags, my wife made me two yellow nylon flags and sewed in a center square with b-b's in it. Wrapped with rubber bands, they've lasted thru the years, but I only carry one at a time, years ago in my back pocket, but in recent years in my belt in front. No white tape, thank you. If I every had a second foul, I would throw my hat; but I just call them one at a time.

REPLY: My former referee related that before the time of gold flags (also before my time), we held our association banquet at a restaurant that made the unfortunate mistake of putting red napkins on the table. Needless to say, they never made that mistake again.

I've never figured the wisdom of covering the ball of the flag with white tape in order to keep the flag from showing. Everybody knows we have them.

I have always gone with two flags, although, my second flag is small and does not have a balled weight. My intention is to have it available for those few occasions when required.

Also carry two bean bags, first one is worn on my belt and the second a small 3 inch by 1 inch bag is kept in the back pocket.

Interesting part is years ago I wore my flag in the back pocket until one day I thought about throwing it, put my hand on it, and then decided no. Of course, a coach saw the action and yelled, "Go ahead and throw it." From that day forward the flag was in the front.

My line judge used to like to wear his two flags in the front with the two balls showing until I stongly suggested putting one out of sight. Of course, there are those who wear two flags one hanging out of each pocket reminding you of the old gunslingers.

Funny story...
 

There's a guy I know who always makes the same joke. Even to this day, it's funny, and I usually know when it's coming...

After a game is done, and during our change-room post game, we talk about what fouls there were, if we missed anything, etc. Somebody will say, "I had 4 flags tonight". My friend says, "you have only one flag - but you threw it four times!" :)

I heard the same story with a difference.

The next season flags were changed to yellow and the banquet was held at the same restaurant. The restaturant after having lost all their red napkins decided it was a good idea to use yellow.

One for the player, one for the coach.

I have a white ball flag and my old trusty 2nd flag in the front right pocket. Last year in a JV game we had a 3 man crew and had 5 flags on one play. That remains our record for FPO (flags per official) on one play, 1.67.

As long as we are on flags, my hard and fast rule with my crew is NO flags showing! I think it looks very unprofessional to have a flag showing. A flag hanging out of a pocket always reminds me of a mechanic with a grease rag hanging out. At the first state final that I worked, the state supervisor said, "I don't want to see any flags out there today." It took me a moment to figure out what he meant.

But I think we would all agree that there is a difference between the ball only showing and having the rag hanging out of the pocket.

We are officials. We carry flags. Everyone knows we have flags. Shrug.

I will never tape a flag or purchase a white tip flag and the ball of my flag sticks right out over my belt. Big deal.

If you are tlaking about entire flags showing out of pockets, I agree.

I am talking about ANY part of a flag sticking out of a pocket. As for the ball showing above the belt, I can live with that. Personally, I have it white.

Of course, people know we carry flags, but that doesn't mean we can't look neat and sharp out there.

It is not about looking sharp or trying to hide the fact that I throw flags. I do not want to have someone notice that I was grabbing for a flag and then changed my mind. That was the way I was taught and that is the way I have done it. It works for me, if it does not work for you then so be it.

Peace

A coach can see you reach whether your ball is white or yellow. And I couldn't possibly care if he does. I'd just say "I changed my mind." What's the coach going to do, tell me I can't change my mind?

Well, there is a reason they make the flags with the white on the top. Someone must have recognized people do this and the reason behind it. Remember they also sell them without the white tip. I have done it that way; I will continue to do it that way. And personally I do not go around telling those to do it any other way or the way I do it. Life is too short to worry about such a minor thing.

Peace

I think most would quickly agree that flags hanging out of a pocket, or from a belt, like an auto mechanic's rag is not the look we're searching for, but all this fuss about a white ball, a yellow ball or someone reaching and not throwing is just so much nonsense.

I keep my flags in my back pockets (deep) mostly because that's the way I learned. It's not any better than keeping them tucked into my belt, but it's no worse either. What matters is they're comfortable back there and it works for me. There are times when I might reach, but change my mind as my view improves, but nothing matters until my flag is thrown. Coaches have at times, although not very often, questioned what I was reaching for and when I'm smart I just ignore them and chuckle while I wonder why they were looking at my *** instead of their players.

Sometimes, when I'm not all that smart, I might ask them that very question. I don't recall, off hand, ever getting an answer.

I am going to adamantly disagree with you on one point. I think putting your flag in your back pocket (however deep you say), looks very silly. And it looks a lot worse when officials grab for their flag behind them, only do change their mind. After all we are sales people and when we give the coach one more reason to think we passed on a play for motives that might not be pure, and then we really set ourselves up for more criticism. At the very least if the flag is in your belt that is a lot harder to tell if you are even reaching for your flag because your hands and arms are much more likely to be in front of your body. Reaching back for a flag or when I watch the SEC (ACC and other southern area) Officials reach for their flags and not throw a flag just raises more questions. I would like to keep coaches out of my head as much as possible. When you have to reach behind you at a critical moment just adds to the fact we might have seen a foul and decide for some good reason we passed. I have seen many critical plays where the officials changed their mind (likely rightfully so) and the focus was not on whether it was a foul, but the fact the official changed their mind was the only focus.

I can think of a NCAA game where Northern Illinois was hosting Maryland and NIU beat a ranked Maryland in the final minutes. The wing official reached for his flag on a critical play near the end of the game that could have been DPI or not and was not called. All SportsCenter focused on (and the local media) is the fact the official did not call this foul. Then there was in implication that this was a "homer call" by the officials.

Peace

Yes, because people will buy it and they will make money. The public in general is pretty stupid; the fact that something exists does not mean that there is a valid reason behind it. Look at grocery stores with built in banks. People take their $300 in coins over to the Coinstar machine which charges a 8.9% fee instead of taking them over to the bank which would count their coins for free.

Yup. People are stooooopid!

My thoughts exactly.

I've seen other guys blistered by coaches: "You saw that hold. I know you did! You were going to flag it! Why didn't you flag it?! I know you saw it?!"

Cute comebacks or glib answers -- even the iron-willed ability to ignore them -- don't make up for the fact a problem was caused where it didn 't need to be. I can grab and release a flag every play and no one in the stadium knows.

As to whether the ball is white or yellow, I could not possibly care less. I have both (bought the white one to see what the fuss was about) and I don't think it affects my appearance one bit. 10 yaers ago I had never heard of this being an issue, and other than other officials, not one person -- coach, player, parent or fence shaker has ever said the first word about the color of my flag.

I bought the white ball flag because I needed a flag and since so many in my association tape their flags, I figured "Why not?" I don't particularly care for it though because it shows dirt quicker. Don't worry, I'll be buying a yellow one this year.

You must have some friendly banks in your area. Every bank here would look at your sack of coins and say "That's nice, you need to roll these first." :)

I'm afraid only you can, "keep coaches out of my head as much as possible" but it's a lot easier if you don't let them in, in the first place. If you think moving your flag to where nobody can it will somehow stop ignorant (sorry, but ignorant is the kindest word I can think of for a coach yelling, ""You saw that hold. I know you did! You were going to flag it! Why didn't you flag it?! I know you saw it?!") people from expressing their ignorance, then move it.

We've discussed the value of ignoring ignorant comments as much as possible many times before. As for when they might reach "blistering", a different remedy may be appropriate, and if handled properly, may serve to avoid and prevent further instances of blistering. That's a different, well worn topic.

As for controlling what ESPN, or any other TV or radio analyst might think or choose to say, that's way beyond the reach of our headlights. I don't recall any mention of where the flag came from in the Miami-Ohio State game a few years ago, when an ocean of fools who had little idea what they were talking about, "blistered" a solid official unmercifully.

The only problem "reaching" might cause is created totally in the mind of an observer who is totally ignorant of the decision process underway. Why do you seem so concerned about what that person might think? When that ignorance goes so far to generate some stupid comment, why do you feel so threatened?

The bottom line is, it's important what we do with flags not where we keep them, wrap them or hide them.

This is not about yelling. I personally do not care if they yell. But just like anything I would like to limit overall scrutiny by anyone watching and I would like for the video to not show something clear where I reached for a flag and changed my mind. I would rather explain a call after the fact without giving them visual evidence. And reaching behind your back is very different than putting your hands near the front of your body where they almost always are.

It just looks really bad and in this part of the country it is widely discouraged to put your flag in your back pocket or in your belt behind your back. To me it looks very silly.

Peace

Don't have an argument with any of your concerns, but I think this is largely a matter of personal preference about two methods that are simply different.

I don't think either method rises so far above the other, to render the other method as "silly", and in the grand scheme of things where flags are kept doesn't really matter all that much. If there is a consensus, or preference, in your area then by all means joining the consensus makes perfect sense.

It seems sometimes, the beneficial objective of "consistency" is allowed to seep far beyond what it was ever intended to achieve.

Regardless of the tip of the flag: If you reach, they will notice. You're reaching for a flag and pulling your hand away.

The key is to have better timing and not reach for the damned thing in the first place. It's just like an IW, which my crew hasn't had happen in 3 full seasons, now. Train yourself to have a slow whistle or slow hands and the problems don't happen.

It always surprised me that Bernie Kukar had his flag sticking out his back pocket his entire career. I do put my second flag in my back pocket, but it comes out about once a century (on average).

It is not just a matter of personal preference. You do not see officials where I live even putting a flag other than their belt. If they do, they are quickly told to do otherwise. And I belong to an association with many Big Ten officials, and it is clear they are not given that "personal preference" to put a flag in their back pocket. And they tell you about it when we review tape of officials from the SEC or ACC that tend to put flags in their back pocket. Just like they make comments about how the SEC at least used to be on the field at the wing positions.

I would disagree with that, but that is my opinion. If that is acceptable where you live, you have to do what gets you buy. But if you moved to other places, you might not have a choice or you will get marked down for using that flag mechanic. This is a little more than what I personally what I want to do. I feel this is the right way because I have seen both ways and the good and bad of both.

Peace

Yep, I can see that.

I'm afraid we've absolutely beaten this horse to death. I think it's great that all the officials in your area, including those in the Big-10, have agreed on where to store your flags and I'm not surprised that you have chosen to "go with the flow", or believe your way is the "right way". Few sane people do things they believe is the "wrong way" deliberately.

I have worked in 3 States and 4 Associations, in which many officials agree with your concerns, and still others keep their flags in their back pockets. Other than simple banter, the issue has never been a problem. There have been no edicts, no declarations, no penalties imposed and no discernable degradation of the quality of officiating related to where flags are stored.

If asked by a supervisor to change where I kept my flags, I likely would because it's just not that important, but I would probably think less of the supervisor for being so petty and intrusive.

Whether you like it or not or I like it or not, supervisors, assignors and associations can be the gate keepers of our officiating opportunities. I did not just go with the flow just to do so. I was told what to do and if I wanted to continue working the things I like working, I had to do it or not work. And yes things like flags, mechanics and emphasis on certain rules and application of certain rules are all things you can be told how work or you do not work. This is one of those things that might not make or break you, but if you are evaluated with another person who is doing everything right and you are deciding to use a personal preference, then they might not pick you. I also do not expect you to change and it really matters little to me if you agree. We are just talking here and life will go on no matter what you do. But I do feel that putting a flag in your back pocket does not look as professional and also can be a problem when going through the process of calling and not calling a foul.

Peace

I don't care if it's in the front or back, I just think it looks sloppy to see it hanging out of a pocket.

And being in the pocket is not going to make any difference with coaches. If they see my hand reach, they see my hand reach. I do not officiate according to what I anticipate coaches are going to say. I am a stronger official than that.

I used to keep it DEEP in my back pocket. (Now I have the ball in the front and a second flag in my front pocket out of sight.) "Coach, see where I keep my flag? That means when I take it out, I really mean it!" I used to love using that line.

As far as local associations go, our association has agreed to look sharp out there.