Question for the board

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

The clock will be stopped even if contact by B1 causes A1 to land out of bounds backwards. A catch by definition occurs when control is established in flight (NFHS 2-4-1) and the pass ends when it is caught (2-31-4). His forward progress was stopped when the kick ended and he became a runner (4-2-2a). The ball ended out of bounds as caused by B1's contact, therefore, the clock is stopped (3-4-4e).

His forward progress is determined by where he caught the ball. B1's contact caused the ball to be placed out of bounds. Consider, if B1 wanted the clock to keep running he should have let A1 touch the ground then stopped his progress. Also, take a look at Case Book 2.15.1.

Have to say this was tricky as it took four different rules to come to the conclusion in the Case Book.

REPLY: Ed...I must disagree. Take a good look at the definition of 'catch.' The receiver can complete a catch in one of two ways: (1) touching the ground inbounds (he didn't), or (2) being contacted by an opponent so that he's prevented from returning to the ground inbounds. This guy satisfied the second condition, so that he completed the catch inbounds, and the clock should continue to run. It's the full definition of catch that leads to the correct ruling.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Ed...I must disagree. Take a good look at the definition of 'catch.' The receiver can complete a catch in one of two ways: (1) touching the ground inbounds (he didn't), or (2) being contacted by an opponent so that he's prevented from returning to the ground inbounds. This guy satisfied the second condition, so that he completed the catch inbounds, and the clock should continue to run. It's the full definition of catch that leads to the correct ruling.

Bob, I agreed with you until I tried to determine the logic used for the Case Book and frankly if I saw this play, the might still clock would still be running.

The action of B1 kept A1 from landing inbounds. If you look at 3.4.3 Ruling it supports stopping the clock because A1 landed out of bounds. When you add being pushed backwards out of bounds the only change is where A1 lands. Then look at 2.15.1(b) which agrees in principle with 3.4.3 that action by the opponent will affect the result of the play as it pertains to boundaries.

Futhermore, if A1 came down inbounds and then was pushed out of bounds by B1 the clock would be stopped.

When did the down end? The act of catching the ball would not end the down. The only time a catch would end the down is if A1 and B1 jointly possessed the ball. That would end the down and keep the clock moving as the ball would become dead inbounds.

If B1 managed to tackle A1 inbounds that would end the down and keep the clock moving.

I think the point of 3.4.3 is the play remains alive until the ball is out of bounds. The catch is just a part of the live ball play.

[Niner]

Bob, I agree with you.

[Mike L]

I don't know how you can possibly give someone a forward progress spot and then rule he is also out of bounds. The ball is dead as soon as you rule progress stopped. A ball that is already dead in bounds can't also then be ruled dead out of bounds.
I see that CB 3.4.3C says the clock is stopped because of the out of bounds and not due to foward progress. If that is true, then are they saying the spot becomes where the ball crosses the sideline and not where the hit was made? Because if you are not giving him forward progress then the OOB spot is where you'll have to spot it. What if it's a hit that drives the A player back 2 or 3 or 5 yards? And what if that "loss" causes the line to gain to be missed? Yeah, I'd like to be in on that conversation with the coach.

[Ed Hickland]

You can make a point either way but I suggest looking at Rule 2-15-2...When an airborne player makes a catch, forward progress is the furthest point of advancement after he possesses the ball if contacted by a defender.

A1 is airborne and is contacted by B1. Therefore, his forward progress would be where the initial contact is made. B1 also caused A1 to go out of bounds as he was pushed. Case Book 2.15.1b supports spotting the ball at the point of forward progress.

The question of stopping the clock still remains.

Unlike the NFL, an airborne player who has caught the ball is pushed out of bounds in possession of the ball is treated just like any other player that is pushed out. Therefore, the clock starts on the snap.