Foul where distance gained prior to foul
Excuse the perhaps simple question but I am new to the U.S. rules. Under NFL rules does the penalty for a foul get included before or after the determination for first down. (In Canada it is after if the distance is gained before the foul.)
Situation (NFL rules): Team A 3rd and 10 at the A 20 yard line. Players A42 rushes the ball. Player A10 holds at the A 35 yard line and the ball goes dead at the A 40. Is the result 3rd and 5 at the A 25 or is it 1st and 10 at the A 25? Thanks. |
3rd and 5.
|
It's after the foul is considered. In your example, the runner may not have gotten the first down without the hold. Go back to the previous spot (NFL rules) and penalize from there and repeat 3rd down. It will be 3rd & 20 from the A's 10.
|
Quote:
|
You're right. I was thinking of a foul behind the line.
|
It may be tedious, but often the correct answer to the question being asked depends ENTIRELY on which rules code you are questioning. There are major, and sometimes basic, differences between the collegiate (NCAA) and High School (NFHS) rules codes, so it's impossible to provide a correct answer without choosing a specific code.
|
Quote:
|
To try and explain this a different way; A runner is entitled to any and all yardage he gains without fouling. Once he fouls, however, any yardage he gains after fouling is considered tainted. When the opponent accepts the foul, the runner suffers the penalty measured from where he fouled, rather than where he may have wound up, because that additional yardage is considered tainted.
There will be times that the opponent, for any number of reasons, would rather accept the results of the play, including the tainted yardage, and will choose to decline the penalty, in which case even the tainted yardage gain stands. |
Quote:
|
Canadian Ruling
Quote:
In the GWN, we need to know where the ball was held when the hold occurred. If before the LTG, back 10 from PLS, DR. If after the LTG, back 10 from the PBH, 1D/10. :D |
just another reason as to why football rules are so much more complicated than baseball or basketball, and why i hate discussing football rules not in person lol
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
NCAA basic spots depend on what type of play it is and can be confusing when you get into change of possession plays. Also, there are some exceptions when the foul is behind the neutral zone, depending on the foul. Can anyone give me an example of a play where we need a basic spot analysis rather than the enforcement spot being listed with the foul? To me, the basic spot stuff is anything but basic and should be eliminated with all penalties giving their enforcement spots in the rule. |
Quote:
|
No one has given me a rationale for why we have a basic spot where the basic spot comes up when a penalty doesn't give a specific enforcement spot. Why not just have all fouls specify. You have many spots -- spot of the foul, end of the run, previous spot, succeeding spot, etc. On holding, the specified enforcement spot could be, "spot of the foul, unless the end of the related run or end of the pass is behind the spot, then end of the run/pass."
|
Quote:
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:42pm. |