Will NFHS Follow NFL Rule Changes in the Future?

[FredFan7]

With the NFL doing away with the 5-yard facemask and the force-out, I wonder if we'll see this find it's way to NFHS.

I wouldn't care one way or the other regarding the force-out, but I hope that they leave the 5-yard facemask foul in NFHS. High School players need to learn to stay off the facemask at ALL times, even if they don't twist it.

[Robert Goodman]

Historically, it's been unusual for NFL to originate a provision and for it then to go directly to Fed without passing thru NCAA. I can think of just one general example: the wording and details are a little different, but the most recent rule allowing forward passes from anywhere in & behind the neutral zone started with NFL and spread to Fed before NCAA. When the forward pass had first been legalized that was the rule, but within a few years restricted to originating at least 5 yards behind the NZ, and that's the way it was when NFL & Fed started writing their own rules, so in a sense NFL can be said to have originated ("Re-originated"?) it.

The differential face mask penalties IIRC began with NCAA, but I don't remember whether Fed or NFL adopted them next. So this new change is another case of NFL's "re"-originating a rule provision.

Robert

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Coincidentally, for next season, both the NFL and NCAA have decided to do away with the foul for an incidental grasp of the face mask. Will it trickle down to NFHS? Who knows. In the past, some NCAA changes have flowed into Fed ball, but not immediately and not necessarily in the same way. The Fed isn't a body that jumps quickly to mimic NCAA or NFL without due and sometimes lengthy consideration of a change.

[ajmc]

When NFHS adopted the 5 yard face mask penalty, it was specifically in response to the observation that far too many contacts with the face mask were being ignored, ostensibly, because of a reluctance to assess a 15 yard penalty for a minor contact.

As the NFHS was committed to focusing on eliminating ALL contacts with the face mask, they adopted the 5 yard penalty with the direct intent being to INCREASE the number of penalties called for this safety related infraction, by encouraging the 5 yard version, where there was reluctance to penalize 15 yards for a minor contact. Just based on personal observation it seems the idea was successful, as the majority of face masks penalties called seem to be of the 5 yard variety.

Unless they've completely reversed their position, I would not expect NFHS to follow the other levels and revert back to the 15 yards, only, penalty.

[Niner]

Interesting. It seems to me that 99% of all facemask violations (5 & 15) are accidental. Does the differential in the penalty really change anything other than the officials feeling better about calling it? Is that why the pros went back to one penalty?

[HLin NC]

The pro and college coaches felt as if the incidental facemask fouls were inconsequential and shouldn't be called.

NFHS' feeling was that HS officials were holding back from calling a facemask at all unless there was significant grasping-pulling-twisting.

[MJT]

I don't think the NF will change on this one. The NF is consistantly more on the "safety" kick than the NCAA or NFL. The most obvious example of this is the increased BBW area that the NF has compared to the NCAA and NFL. The difference in safety is the the reason that I think the NF will not eliminate the 5 yard FM.

[Theisey]

NF added the 5 yd "incidental" facemask penalty in 2000. There has been
no outcry to my knowledge to remove it.

While I don't care about what the NFL does, I do feel the NCAA is making a mistake for removing this foul from their rules.

[Scooby]

Originally Posted by FredFan7

With the NFL doing away with the 5-yard facemask and the force-out, I wonder if we'll see this find it's way to NFHS.

I wouldn't care one way or the other regarding the force-out, but I hope that they leave the 5-yard facemask foul in NFHS. High School players need to learn to stay off the facemask at ALL times, even if they don't twist it.

There is no force out rule in Fed. football. A player must come down with at least one foot in the field of play prior to any part of his body or ball touching the ground out of bounds. The NCAA is the same way, so this is the NFL following the direction set by these other two rule sets. Though the NFL would not look at it this way.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Theisey

NF added the 5 yd "incidental" facemask penalty in 2000. There has been
no outcry to my knowledge to remove it.

While I don't care about what the NFL does, I do feel the NCAA is making a mistake for removing this foul from their rules.

AMEN!!

Big mistake and I hope the Fed doesn't revert back.

I only keep up on the obvious differences between Fri-Sat-Sun rules only to explain to the average fan and coach what they are. I don't do NCAA anymore so I don't need to confuse myself with the details. Pro rules in most sports are not safety-oriented so much as entertainment-oriented.

[ajmc]

[QUOTE=Scooby]There is no force out rule in Fed. football. A player must come down with at least one foot in the field of play prior to any part of his body or ball touching the ground out of bounds.

You are correct, that there is no "Force Out Rule" in the NFHS code, but there are "rule exceptions" that provide for the covering official's judgment to apply to situations involving contact near a sideline, when an airborne receiver is "forced" OOB.

Case Book 7.5.2.situation L explains when, "the contact by B1 changed the direction of A2 and he is given forward progress." It goes on to qualify when, "added force in the general direction the player was moving, is not considered a factor affecting his spot of landing.", and therefore first touching the ground in this situation would be incomplete.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

When NFHS adopted the 5 yard face mask penalty, it was specifically in response to the observation that far too many contacts with the face mask were being ignored, ostensibly, because of a reluctance to assess a 15 yard penalty for a minor contact.

That's exactly what NCAA said too. That was also a reason given for their revival of an early 20th century rule, the differential penalty for running into vs. roughing the kicker.

This sort of thing tends to go back & forth over generations.

Robert