NFL Rule Changes

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

--Eliminates false start penalty for shotgun going past the QB, now shotgun snap treated as a fumble

I didn't know this one. I've never seen this happen--or be called. NFL sure has some interesting differences....

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Suudy

I didn't know this one. I've never seen this happen--or be called. NFL sure has some interesting differences....

When I went to the link, it said:

• A direct snap from center that goes backward will now be treated as a fumble. Previously, it was ruled a false start.

And I still can't figure out what this means. What I'm guessing it refers to is a snap which is illegal in some way -- that previously the ball remained dead, and that the change was to make this a foul as the ball becomes live.

Robert

[dvasques]

what happened until last season was if a QB under center didn't touch a snap and the ball passed right between the QBs legs without touching anyone, that was ruled a false start.
It will now be ruled a fumble

[dvasques]

what I don't understand, and you guys may help me out on that, is how de deferral works.
So, in the past, the winner of the coin toss would choose to receive ou kickoff. Now what?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by dvasques

what I don't understand, and you guys may help me out on that, is how de deferral works.
So, in the past, the winner of the coin toss would choose to receive ou kickoff. Now what?

They can defer their choice to the second half and give the other team first choice. This is the HS/NCAA rule.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by dvasques

what happened until last season was if a QB under center didn't touch a snap and the ball passed right between the QBs legs without touching anyone, that was ruled a false start.

Ah, I get it...because the snap was "incomplete" according to their rules, by failing to touch a player in the backfield (or quarterback legally positioned) before touching the ground. One of the NFL's retroactive dead balls, such that if the clock was to start on the snap, it does, and so time can run off even though the ball is retroactively ruled dead. Not a lot of time in most cases, but if it was a high, "adrenaline" snap it could be a few secs. before it touched the ground.

Scott Taylor took a long time persuading us in rec.sport.officiating that the same sort of retroactive dead ball occurs in NFL rules on a field goal after the ball went thru the goal but before it touched anything beyond.

Hey, wait a minute! How long did NFL have this? I can surely recall many times in punt formation where the ball had to be fielded on a hop. Decades ago I remember the Bears' rolling a snap to their blocking back.

But if it was some kind of "error" rule like the ball's passing an infielder, surely that couldn't've been long in effect either, because in 1974 (at least) the Vikings used to snap between Tarkenton's legs to the punter in their short punt formation.

It will now be ruled a fumble

But can any player of A be first to touch & advance it legally? Or is it a live ball foul if someone other than a backfield player touches it 1st?

Robert

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Hey, wait a minute! How long did NFL have this? I can surely recall many times in punt formation where the ball had to be fielded on a hop. Decades ago I remember the Bears' rolling a snap to their blocking back.

It only matters if someone is in position to recieve a hand to hand snap.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by LDUB

It only matters if someone is in position to recieve a hand to hand snap.

That was made clear by subsequent posts, thanks. NFL has had some variations on that rule over time. Used to be the extension of hands by a player not under center was a false start per se; the only other exception was for a player in an (undefined) kick formation who kept them extended until actually receiving the snap (or until play was prevented). It's not at all clear what they were trying to prevent, or why, by having that rule. It wasn't a matter of hand faking, because it didn't matter how quickly or slowly the hands were moved.

Do I understand correctly that the new rule allows the ball to become live, allowing team B the option of a penalty? I still don't see the point of making this illegal. It's not as if team B is being deceived as to when the ball is being snapped, only where it's going, and I've no idea why the NFL wants to outlaw that.

Robert

[MJT]

I was at a clinic in MN the past two days and 3 NFL officials were there. Bernie Kukar, who retired as an R in 2005 said he had lobbied for only the 15 yard FM for over 10 years and he was really excited that they finally are going to it. Mike Spanier, a current NFL LJ said they are all really happy with the new force out rule.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Scott Taylor

I remember him from rso. Is he still around? Does anyone know his username?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

When I went to the link, it said:

And I still can't figure out what this means. What I'm guessing it refers to is a snap which is illegal in some way -- that previously the ball remained dead, and that the change was to make this a foul as the ball becomes live.

Robert

I may have mispoke when I put "shotgun." I think I should've put "direct snap" as another poster put recently.

This happened in a game this year and it got quite a bit of exposure since (naturally) the other team recovered the football and felt screwed they weren't allowed to keep the ball. Here's the Markbreit explanation from his Chicago Tribune column:

"I'm sure you're getting a million questions about the ball that went through Brian Griese's legs, but why is that a false start and a snap over the punter's head is a live ball? If Griese was in the shotgun would it still have been a false start? --Michael Brenner, Chicago

Here's what the rule book says, "Any extension of hands by a player under center as if to receive the snap is a false start unless while under center he receives the snap. This includes any player under or behind the center placing his hands on his knees or on the body of the center. It is legal for a player under center who has extended his hands to legally go in motion, thus becoming a backfield man." The snap in the Bears game went through the quarterback's legs without touching him, thus, becoming a false start. This situation is seldom seen but was called correctly by Ed Hochuli and his crew by shutting the play down. When a snap goes over a punter's head or a shotgun quarterback's head, the ball is live and can be recovered and advanced by anyone. This action is considered a backward pass."

I hate the removal of the 5 yard face mask, BTW. I wonder how many flags will be picked up this season as the official changes his mind after the flag comes out.

[dvasques]

So the winner of the coin toss can chose how he's going to start the second half instead of the first. Is that right?

I hate the removal of the 5 yard facemask too. Think it would be much more relevant to discuss the possibility of turning some defensive 5 yards and first down penalties into 5 yards alone

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by dvasques

So the winner of the coin toss can chose how he's going to start the second half instead of the first. Is that right?

A team that wins the coin toss and elects to defer will get to choose kick/receive in the second half. The other team will then be asked to make a choice.

Is direction not a choice in NFL?

[MadCityRef]

5 yd face mask was eliminated in NCAA too. Coaches felt (they write the NCAA rules) the 5s were too incidental to be a foul.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I may have mispoke when I put "shotgun." I think I should've put "direct snap" as another poster put recently.

This happened in a game this year and it got quite a bit of exposure since (naturally) the other team recovered the football and felt screwed they weren't allowed to keep the ball. Here's the Markbreit explanation from his Chicago Tribune column:

"I'm sure you're getting a million questions about the ball that went through Brian Griese's legs, but why is that a false start and a snap over the punter's head is a live ball? If Griese was in the shotgun would it still have been a false start? --Michael Brenner, Chicago

Here's what the rule book says, "Any extension of hands by a player under center as if to receive the snap is a false start unless while under center he receives the snap. This includes any player under or behind the center placing his hands on his knees or on the body of the center. It is legal for a player under center who has extended his hands to legally go in motion, thus becoming a backfield man." The snap in the Bears game went through the quarterback's legs without touching him, thus, becoming a false start. This situation is seldom seen but was called correctly by Ed Hochuli and his crew by shutting the play down. When a snap goes over a punter's head or a shotgun quarterback's head, the ball is live and can be recovered and advanced by anyone. This action is considered a backward pass."

It happened in the 2007 Bears/Eagles game. In 2006 the rule was not applied correctly in the Saints/Steelers game thus allowing a TD by Duece Macallister when the ball was snapped along ground while Drew Brees was under center.

Originally Posted by waltjp

A team that wins the coin toss and elects to defer will get to choose kick/receive in the second half. The other team will then be asked to make a choice.

Is direction not a choice in NFL?

Yes it is. Kick, Receive, or Defend a particular goal