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-   -   Is hand chop required? (https://forum.officiating.com/football/39183-hand-chop-required.html)

Bob M. Tue Oct 30, 2007 08:22am
REPLY: Ref Ump Welsch...I agree. However, when there's a coach on the sideline--or both sidelines--with a watch, you're going to catch grief even if your BJ does count off the last five seconds. One coach's watch will definitely be running faster than yours; and you can bet that the other coach's watch will be running slower than yours! The best of all possible worlds is that the game clock is running when the RFP is blown and the BJ is facing the scoreboard.

Ref Ump Welsch Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob M.
REPLY: Ref Ump Welsch...I agree. However, when there's a coach on the sideline--or both sidelines--with a watch, you're going to catch grief even if your BJ does count off the last five seconds. One coach's watch will definitely be running faster than yours; and you can bet that the other coach's watch will be running slower than yours! The best of all possible worlds is that the game clock is running when the RFP is blown and the BJ is facing the scoreboard.
My crew solved that problem. We tell the coaches that we have one of those ReadyRef pagers, that will time the 25 seconds and it buzzes at 20, and our BJ will count off. My white hat will "warn" coaches that we will NOT accept any bellyaching from them about the 25-seconds being inconsistent. We've actually flagged one coach for USC because he kept yelling out the time it took from RFP to snap on EVERY play by the opponents. After the flag, he was quiet.

Mike L Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:19am
Like Ref inSoCA said, we don't chop, rarely get any comment about the 25 second clock from coaches, rarely have delay flags. Perhaps in our area, this is a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist.
And as usual, my advise is to do what your local assoc and/or state wants you to do.

MJT Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch
The offense keeping on a watch from the whistle. Dangerous territory there, because if both teams have a coach standing on the sidelines with a watch and you flag a DOG at 24 seconds (even if you have 25 on your watch), you'll catch so much grief both teams might not have any coaches to finish the game because you'll be kicking them all out on USC's. This was what the NSAA was wanting to avoid by having the chopping on the last 5 seconds. It brings consistency because the BJ is doing it for both teams.
If there is not a play clock, and crews are told not to chop, I think it would be wise to not wait until 1 second to snap the ball. We do not chop cuz we are told to not chop. The coaches were at the same rules meeting where we were told that. I have never heard a coach complain about it cuz they know that is how it will be.

Rich Wed Oct 31, 2007 01:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJT
If there is not a play clock, and crews are told not to chop, I think it would be wise to not wait until 1 second to snap the ball. We do not chop cuz we are told to not chop. The coaches were at the same rules meeting where we were told that. I have never heard a coach complain about it cuz they know that is how it will be.
It's amazing when someone in the state decides that they know better than the NFHS. To me, the height of arrogance.

JugglingReferee Wed Oct 31, 2007 05:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN
It's amazing when someone in the state decides that they know better than the NFHS. To me, the height of arrogance.
As I understand it, it is very clear in Fed basketball that states are permitted to invoke state authority for the game as they see it. Does the same not exist in football?

Ref Ump Welsch Wed Oct 31, 2007 08:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN
It's amazing when someone in the state decides that they know better than the NFHS. To me, the height of arrogance.
And it's a little bit more amazing when that person is also the state rep to the NF football rules committee. :rolleyes:

Rich Wed Oct 31, 2007 09:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
As I understand it, it is very clear in Fed basketball that states are permitted to invoke state authority for the game as they see it. Does the same not exist in football?
Sure, but why would they simply look at a mechanic, say "that's stupid" and eliminate it. What's the benefit to having the play clock be a "secret?"

I know crews that manipulate the clock and give 28, 29, 30 seconds for a DOG and I suspect that is part of this thinking. I hate that and would rather have field level clocks everyone can see. I've told my BJ -- at 25 we throw a flag. They will adjust quickly.

Mike L Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN
It's amazing when someone in the state decides that they know better than the NFHS. To me, the height of arrogance.
What's even more amazing is some people think the NFHS knows what's best for all situations and all areas. The NFHS is a rules making organization, their official mechanics are suggested, not required.


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