Offensive Pass Interference on 4th Down
 

Federation Rules.

With 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter, A has the ball 4 and 10 from the B35 yard line. A80 commits offensive pass interference in the endzone then catches the ball in the endzone for an apparent score. What is the ruling?

In Federation rules, Offensive Pass Interference is a 15 yard penalty and a loss of down, enforced from the previous spot. The penalty in this play would result in 1st and 10 for B at the 50 and the touchdown is obviously negated.

I agree, and that's how our crew enforced it yesterday, however, one of our fellow officials disagreed with us today, and I thought it would put it out there for discussion to see if anyone would have anything different.

Simbio

Out of curiosity, how did he think it should have been enforced?

His statement was that of the football fundamental "No penalty causes loss of ball."

Interesting argument but technically, I don't think it is the foul that directly caused the ball the be lost. The foul only specifies that the offense loses a down, so A lost the football because they turned it over on downs, not because they committed a penalty.

I think what the fundamental is saying is that no foul can directly award possesion of the football to the other team but I could be wrong.

The fundamental:I - 7 "No foul causes loss of the ball." Also stated in definitions under Section 16 - Fouls and Penalties - Art 3: "No foul causes loss of the ball." What they do lose is the 15 yards, and the right to replay the down. Since it was fourth down and they didn't make the line to gain, they turn the ball over on downs.

This is correct and how it is interpretted.

"Loss of down" only means that A to loses the right to replay the down. They still need to make the line to gain after the penalty is administered. In your scenario, they did not make the line to gain after enforcement of the penalty, so A loses the ball on downs. It is not the foul itself that causes the turnover.

Here's a similar scenario that involves a penalty and LOD...

4th & 5 @ A30. A5 Runs for 10 yards and throws and Illegal Forward Pass @ 40.

After the enforcement of the penalty, A still makes the line to gain. It is 1st & 10 for A @ A35, not 2nd & 10. A doesn't lose an actual down in the series.

Thanks
 

Thank you everyone for responding. You all reinforced our correct call on the field.

Simbio

Very well said! You are correct in your thinking.

This is a very good example showing how the LOD works.

So..... LOD isn't really LOD; it is LORTRTD? :D

We had the exact same sit twice this year. One was on a 4th down play, and the other was on a 2-point conversion. Both times, they were committed by the team that had a considerable lead. Incredible how it can happen at those times.

That's funny, I had the exact same sitch this past week as well. Coach wanted the down replayed and as WH I went and explained that the loss of down awarded the ball over to B. He didn't get it, but didn't surprise me because before the game in the conference he asked me if it was legal to dropkick or chop block down field. Had to laugh about that.

Wow, we had it on Friday too!!
Had to slap my crew around to wake them up for the enforcement.

Canadian Ruling
 

CANADIAN RULING:

No LD here; just 15 yards. A 4D/25 @ B-50.

There's a 4th down in Canadian? :)

I think your sentence is missing a subject.

I think you meant to say, "There's a 4th down in Canadian football?"

But yes, you are correct - normally there is not a 4th down up here. If a play needs to be modified for field position because it involves the US 50 yard line, I mention it. I should do the same if a play involves a 4th down. :)

I didn't have to slap my crew for the enforcement. We knew what we were doing. The coaches needed the slapping. Both times, the head coaches of the offending team were on my sideline. (I'm HL by the way) The one that lost the ball on 4th down was asking why it wasn't a replay of 4th down. I explained to him OPI is 15 and a loss of down, and since it was 4th down and they failed to meet the line to gain, they lose the ball. He tried the line about no penalty causes the ball to be lost, and I told him that's true, but this was 4th down, and you failed to gain a first down. He and his assistants were standing there trying to figure out how it can be. I just went on my business as usual.

The one that lost it on the 2-point conversion at first was puzzled as to what we were doing, taking it away from them and enforcing the 15 on the kickoff. I explained to him it's OPI and a loss of down so therefore they couldn't do the try and it has to be enforced on the kickoff since the try can't be redone. At first, he gave me a funny look like my explanation was all over the place and then he realized it. Loss of down, you got the call right. Sorry, lost my head there for a moment. I said, no problem coach. (BTW, this coach is the winningest coach in 8-man ball currently and probably historically in Nebraska and probably the winningest in state history and currently percentage wise-he's a real class act with a team that's always high on my sportsmanship list)

They probably should delete that statement because it's too facile.

What about illegal touch by K of their free kick in the neutral zone? K was last to possess the ball before the touching, and the down may even have ended with a K player in possession of the ball. The penalty causes loss of ball by any simple reading of those words.

Robert

Robert is first touching considered a penalty though?

No, good point, it's a choice without being considered a penalty, and it doesn't offset a foul by the other team. Like incomplete pass.

Probably that statement (i.e. not a particular rules provision, but the "fundamental") was put in because there were times when there were loss-of-ball penalties. The last of those in USAn ball I know of was eliminated in 1970 (give or take a year) by NCAA when fouls during certain loose balls had the loss of ball provision removed from the penalty. Likewise there was a statement about incomplete forward passes not offsetting a foul by the other team because at certain times there were penalties for incomplete (and not necessarily intentionally so) forward passes. (There were a couple of years in the 1940s in NCAA where a 2nd incomplete pass in a series of downs was penalized by loss of down & 10 yards from the previous spot.)

Robert