starting on a yard line

[dumbref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Yup. We do it all the time. Not only on COP situations, but on first downs when we can get away with it, too, on well-marked fields.

This philosophy may have cost Auburn the game against LSU. The LJ marked a spot on the line when it was quite obvious he was down at least a foot or more short of the line. It was a third down play, which after measurement resulted in a first down. More importantly, the clock would have continued to run. LSU scored with 0:01 time remaining.

Fourth and inches VS first and 10 may change the play calling, the defense, the time outs remaining – any number of things. But we will never know. It didn’t make it easier on the HL, he still had to bring the chains from across the field to measure to the nose of the ball!

Was it philosophy or just a bad spot? What does an inch or two matter – “when we can get away with it”?

[PSU213]

Originally Posted by dumbref

This philosophy may have cost Auburn the game against LSU. The LJ marked a spot on the line when it was quite obvious he was down at least a foot or more short of the line. It was a third down play, which after measurement resulted in a first down. More importantly, the clock would have continued to run. LSU scored with 0:01 time remaining.

Fourth and inches VS first and 10 may change the play calling, the defense, the time outs remaining – any number of things. But we will never know. It didn’t make it easier on the HL, he still had to bring the chains from across the field to measure to the nose of the ball!

Was it philosophy or just a bad spot? What does an inch or two matter – “when we can get away with it”?

I am not talking about doing it in the middle of a series (i.e. a spot after 3rd down)--then every inch can be critical. I just mean spot it on a yard line for 1/10 between the 20's.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by dumbref

This philosophy may have cost Auburn the game against LSU. The LJ marked a spot on the line when it was quite obvious he was down at least a foot or more short of the line. It was a third down play, which after measurement resulted in a first down. More importantly, the clock would have continued to run. LSU scored with 0:01 time remaining.

Fourth and inches VS first and 10 may change the play calling, the defense, the time outs remaining – any number of things. But we will never know. It didn’t make it easier on the HL, he still had to bring the chains from across the field to measure to the nose of the ball!

Was it philosophy or just a bad spot? What does an inch or two matter – “when we can get away with it”?

You clearly didn't read my post. COP or first downs. Never on second, third, or fourth down. There is no such philosophy then as ten yards is ten yards ONCE THE CHAINS ARE SET.

[dumbref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

You clearly didn't read my post. COP or first downs. Never on second, third, or fourth down. There is no such philosophy then as ten yards is ten yards ONCE THE CHAINS ARE SET.

Well, didn’t I hit the hornet’s nest. You will be surprised to know that my personal opinion on this philosophy is closer to yours than my post may have indicated. I chose this slightly embellished approach (based on a conversation with a co-worker) to drive home a point. Like it or not we live in a world of perception – from coaches, fans and the talking heads. We must use extreme discretion when employing this philosophy, guarding against the impression of incompetence and impropriety. And as you point out, there are times we should never use this philosophy and it is important to explore those times. Thanks for doing that. Are there other times?

Here one of my no-no’s: After a measurement

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by dumbref

This philosophy may have cost Auburn the game against LSU. The LJ marked a spot on the line when it was quite obvious he was down at least a foot or more short of the line. It was a third down play, which after measurement resulted in a first down. More importantly, the clock would have continued to run. LSU scored with 0:01 time remaining.

Fourth and inches VS first and 10 may change the play calling, the defense, the time outs remaining – any number of things. But we will never know. It didn’t make it easier on the HL, he still had to bring the chains from across the field to measure to the nose of the ball!

Was it philosophy or just a bad spot? What does an inch or two matter – “when we can get away with it”?

Golly...wonder is it possible that the HL simply disagrees with where you say the spot was?

As has been stated, no one has advocated doing this at anytime other than on 1st down between the 20's.

[ljdave]

We have started doing this, too and, for the most part, I like it. It helps make us seem competent. However, something still bothers me about it. If the timer lets a few extra seconds run off the clock, we are instructed to correct the timing error. In short my question is, if 5 seconds matters so much, why doesn't 5 inches?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by ljdave

If the timer lets a few extra seconds run off the clock, we are instructed to correct the timing error.

By whom and under what circumstances are you adding this time to the clock?

The 2006 edition of High School Football Rules by Topic addresses correctable timing errors and states, "The correction procedure applies to obvious errors. The coverage does not authorize attempting to correct trivial or incidental lag starting or stopping the clock. The error must be in an acknowledged discrepancy in the time and does include a slight lag due to human reaction."

[refbuz]

Originally Posted by ljdave

In short my question is, if 5 seconds matters so much, why doesn't 5 inches?

Because realistically, as long as you are consistant, those 5 inches don't matter. Does it it really create an advantage for A if you set the chains up on the 30 rather 29 3/4 yardline? No. 10 yards is 10 yards. A needs to go 10 yards for a 1st down, regardless of the line that the chains are set up on.

If your on a well marked field it just looks better, and makes it easier for the wings.

[ljdave]

[QUOTE=refbuz]Because realistically, as long as you are consistant, those 5 inches don't matter. Does it it really create an advantage for A if you set the chains up on the 30 rather 29 3/4 yardline? No. 10 yards is 10 yards.

It creates an advantage for B if they get stopped on 4th down 2 inches from the goal line.

[refbuz]

Originally Posted by ljdave

It creates an advantage for B if they get stopped on 4th down 2 inches from the goal line.

Really???

What is B's advantage in your scenario? That they're gaining 34 inches of field position???

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by refbuz

What is B's advantage in your scenario? That they're gaining 34 inches of field position???

Inches matter close to a goal line. The loss of a foot or so is a common result of a play from scrimmage. That's why someone specified a ways up in this thread, "outside the 20 yard lines".

Robert

[waltjp]

My crew tries to start on a hash mark when practical. Those times include long gains where a first down is clearly achieved, following kicks and after a change of possession. Another thing we try to avoid it placing the ball between the 10 and 11 yard line, which would allow the offense a chance to make a first down inside of the 1 yard line.

When you factor in the inexact science of judging forward progress and then moving the ball to the inbound marks or trying to have the umpire place the ball in line with the wing official's spot when a run ends in the middle of the field a couple of inches one way or the other isn't significant.

Over the course of a game the inches gained or lost for any given team tend to balance out. Excluding goal line situations, it's not very often that A is stopped just short of the goal line.

When you look at the big picture this practice helps the game run smoother. It's easier on the chain crews and is a huge advantage when in determining if a measurement is needed.