starting on a yard line

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bossman72

why do you make it a point to start on a yard line? why don't you just spot it where the spot should be? I don't see the big deal here why you are moving it to a yard line.

Place the ball on the hash, place the box on the hash. Now, we know the ball has to go exactly 10 yards for a 1st. Place the ball between the hashes and the placement of the box is very likely to be off, which means the sticks will be off as well. You may well be asking the offense to gain 10 yards and a foot for a 1st down.

Also, if the line to gain is on a hash or your mark, it's much easier to know if you've made the line to gain. It also cuts down on measuring unnecesssarily.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Place the ball on the hash, place the box on the hash. Now, we know the ball has to go exactly 10 yards for a 1st. Place the ball between the hashes and the placement of the box is very likely to be off, which means the sticks will be off as well. You may well be asking the offense to gain 10 yards and a foot for a 1st down.

Also, if the line to gain is on a hash or your mark, it's much easier to know if you've made the line to gain. It also cuts down on measuring unnecesssarily.

Ok, that makes sense. Additionally, this is also on a play where the runner CLEARLY makes the line to gain, correct? (like by a couple yards or more so the spot doesn't matter in regards to getting the first down)

[MJT]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Ok, that makes sense. Additionally, this is also on a play where the runner CLEARLY makes the line to gain, correct? (like by a couple yards or more so the spot doesn't matter in regards to getting the first down)

No, we only do it on COP or long 1st downs, (plays of 20 yards or more) and as stated above, not when the ball is inside either 20 yard line.

[JRutledge]

The time you do this is on kickoffs, punts, long gains with the first down and any change of possession. We do this all the time and that is that. It works. I have never heard a single coach complain about it. It makes the knowledge of the first down on well marked fields obvious. BTW, most college conferences and the NFL both advocate this practice. Inches or even a half of a yard is not going to make that big of a difference.

Peace

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by MJT

No, we only do it on COP or long 1st downs, (plays of 20 yards or more) and as stated above, not when the ball is inside either 20 yard line.

Do you do it on incomplete 4th down passes and 4th down plays where the line to gain was not achieved?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Blue37

Do you do it on incomplete 4th down passes and 4th down plays where the line to gain was not achieved?

In the USAn codes, that reverses A's & B's restraining lines, and at least theoretically the down box and back stick of the chain should go on B's line, which should result in moving them the length of the ball in the case of the incomplete pass. In Canadian codes there's only one "line of scrimmage" so it would not move in case of the incomplete pass; rather, the spotting of the ball would be reversed to keep its foremost point the same.

In 1980 I put the following situation to Brice Durbin at the Fed office in Kansas City. (I kept calling him "Bruce", thinking I was mishearing his name. He was the first Brice I ever heard of.):

3rd down, A's runner carries the ball with its long axis perpendicular to the sidelines to a spot such that it barely gets entirely into the field of play. The ball is spotted according to its foremost point, then made RFP by rotating it with its long axis parallel to the sidelines, leaving the rearmost point of the ball in A's end zone. 4th down, A's legal forward pass is incomplete. Do you now award a TD to B, because the ball's spotted as per the previous down, part of it in A's end zone?

He answered that that's why they tell their officials to always ready the ball in such a way as to be entirely in the field of play. Presumably following the 3rd down run above, the back end of the ball would be used as the rotation point instead of its front.

Situation doesn't arise in Canadian football, where the ball is always readied with its entirety outside either team's 1 yard line, and where there's only one "line of scrimmage" anyway. (Maybe that's why their rules refer to "point" instead of "spot" -- the ball is literally on a geometric point rather than occupying space.) B's restraining line is 1 yard their side of the LOS.

Robert

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

In the USAn codes, that reverses A's & B's restraining lines, and at least theoretically the down box and back stick of the chain should go on B's line, which should result in moving them the length of the ball in the case of the incomplete pass. In Canadian codes there's only one "line of scrimmage" so it would not move in case of the incomplete pass; rather, the spotting of the ball would be reversed to keep its foremost point the same.

In 1980 I put the following situation to Brice Durbin at the Fed office in Kansas City. (I kept calling him "Bruce", thinking I was mishearing his name. He was the first Brice I ever heard of.):

3rd down, A's runner carries the ball with its long axis perpendicular to the sidelines to a spot such that it barely gets entirely into the field of play. The ball is spotted according to its foremost point, then made RFP by rotating it with its long axis parallel to the sidelines, leaving the rearmost point of the ball in A's end zone. 4th down, A's legal forward pass is incomplete. Do you now award a TD to B, because the ball's spotted as per the previous down, part of it in A's end zone?

He answered that that's why they tell their officials to always ready the ball in such a way as to be entirely in the field of play. Presumably following the 3rd down run above, the back end of the ball would be used as the rotation point instead of its front.

Situation doesn't arise in Canadian football, where the ball is always readied with its entirety outside either team's 1 yard line, and where there's only one "line of scrimmage" anyway. (Maybe that's why their rules refer to "point" instead of "spot" -- the ball is literally on a geometric point rather than occupying space.) B's restraining line is 1 yard their side of the LOS.

Robert

CANADIAN RULING:

On cases where yards are not gained, the rulebook explicity states that a TD cannot be awarded as the result of this ball movement.

Your statements in red could not be more accurate.