Hs Or Ncaa ?
 

To all who contribute to this site a hearty thank you from DOWNUNDER as my reviewing of the issues that arise has helped me immensely.

I am a new "White Cap" in our football comp in Sydney Australia and we play under NCAA rules. I have officiated for many years as we have to impliement a "player-official" system as we do not have enough offiicials to run both venues (2 games per day per venue). I previously played for many years and coached for the past 9 nine years at club, state and national level.

The only difficulty I am having in reviewing the issues that come up in each thread is the didfferences between HS and NCAA rulings that are quoted, which make me run for the rule book or my latest Rogers Redding to check my knowledge - only to later realise the author of the post was referring to a HS rule rather than the NCAA version.

Could I ask PLEASE that all posters who quote a rule refer to which side of the fence you are quoting from - much like our Canadian friend does when referring to the applicable rule.

Many thanks
Darrin

What exactly are you asking? Are you asking which we prefer or which code you should use? I am a little confused by what you are trying to say.

Peace

Rut, it's quite clear what he is asking. :rolleyes:

Is that the Canadian ruling or is that consistent to NFHS and NCAA as well? :p

DSMitchell I try to make sure that I state what rules my posts are based on. It seems most of the time we are talking about NFHS rules, but that could be just me.

BTW, everyone does that already (if that is all he is asking). You even give your little Canadian rulings which most of us seem to ignore because most of us are not in Canada. If that is what he wants, then why all the background of what league he is doing? At least for me that did not connect to that question if that is all he wanted to know.

For the record, if you do any reading of this site, not everyone officiates with one code. We have a lot of Texas members that make it very clear what rules they use every time they answer a question. I am almost never confused when they talk and when others ask questions. Then they make it clear they are not familiar with NF Rules. I would also add that most people in the United States use NF rules and that applies to most of the posters that frequent here. Even when people do not ask a question and they do not specify which code answer they are looking for, most answers specify the code they reference. You have to because there are over 200 differences between NF and NCAA codes.

Maybe he needs to read a few more posts before he makes that kind of claim.

Peace

I'm not sure that would be true if you did a count.

Then assume that most posts are about NF Rules (which they clearly are) and if you are not completely sure, then ask (which most will gladly clarify). There is no need to give a life story and then tell people how to reference every post.

Peace

Darrin - I think you can assume that those NOT labelling their posts are using FED rules. Those of us that use NCAA rules tend to include that in our posts (although I flubbed one last week).

Also - check refstripes dot com - they have a similar forum, but they break their discussions into FED and NCAA sections.

Well I did not intend to stir up a hornets nest by simply stating my relative inexperience compared to some of my learned friends and my poor isolated football background from the backwaters of Sydney Australia.

I thank those of you who have contributed POSITIVELY to my post esp Juggling Ref and MBC above and confirm the Canadian version of events is usually stated clearly which I take on board to compare various situations.

It seems that a lot of posts do state the rules but I was SIMPLY asking if it could be borne in mind to avoid any confusion in my growth as an official in the game that I love but am starved of due to my proximity.

So I will assume that unless stated a comment will be based on NFHS which will allow me to read more of the comments that are made in less time.

Thanks a lot
Darrin

If you stick around longer than a month, you might see how things work here. And that was SIMPLY my point. ;)

Peace

Darrin,
I think you might be better off using refstripes dot com. There are a few other officials from Down Under that post there and that site has a bigger NCAA crowd than here.
Also that site doesn't get caught up in all of the petty stuff that goes on here at times.

Agreed.

Peace

:D

Thanks Guys will do.

I don't think I will bother lasting "longer than a month".

Bye.

Sorry the truth hurts. :D

Peace

I see you've moved to the head of the Welcome Wagon. :cool:


Darrin,

Officials are always welcome,and unfortunately, there isn't just one source of officiating resources. I frequent both boards because any information I learn will only help me and both boards provide that opportunity.

There is a big difference between asking people and telling people. And I agree with most everyone else that posted in this thread that it is OFTEN not clear which set of rules are being referenced (especially when people throw in NFL and adapted NFL rules). Then there is always a confusion with people asking for clarification, and others jumping in with 'I think he is talking about...'

I also want to say that the welcome that Rut extended is absolutely appalling and just makes you look like an arrogant dick.

James

You expect anything less from him?

I always find it interesting that most of the people that are clueless about basic information on this discussion board are from other countries. I also find it interesting the people that always want to accuse people of things first start name calling. I just read about 3 or 4 posts this morning and almost all of them reference very specific rules in many answers that are given. All you have to do is read and you will get your answer as to what code applies and if you are unsure, you can ask and someone will gladly accommodate.

No one references NFL rules for a HS game that I have ever seen. And most conversations on rules never talk about NFL because most people here do not work under those rules. Of course we might compare rules sets, but that is when there are people that are confused of a rule or want to know the differences. Usually this is made extremely clear.

Most of the time people only reference rules for the level they are talking about in the post. For example if people are talking about college football (Florida/Auburn KCI reference for example), then the references are about NCAA and someone even might come up and say what the NF rule is or interpretation is. It is not like people come out of left field and do not reference those rules.

There was a link that I have seen posted many times on this website that talks about "Before you post....." This thread needs that link right now. If you want to lecture everyone about how they should post, I would hope you have been around for at least 2 months before you start telling everyone how to post. If saying that makes me arrogant and a dick, then so be it. I know that if he would have posted a similar topic on the basketball and baseball boards, he certainly would have had much more sarcasm and harsh comments.

It makes me wonder how guys like this can officiate if he gets this upset over a response on a discussion board and we are not face to face. :rolleyes:

Peace

And you'd think that when someone actually cites a rule number or quotes from a rule book, it wouldn't be too much trouble to add which book.

No, but they often refer to a "game" and you don't know it's a HS game, let alone a HS game played under Fed rules. Frequently that's one's best bet, for instance if the game is said to have been played on a Fri. night. But around here, HS varsities play on Saturdays (not enough fields with lights, not many colleges have football with much following), and there are circuits of schools that don't belong to their state HSAA, and there are states whose HSAA doesn't use Fed for football, so you never know.

Not most, but maybe more than you think. Most adult nonacademic football is played under the current or previous season's NFL rules or a slight modification of them. In any given year in New York City, I think there are more games of football under such rules than under NCAA's.

USFA rules are catching on, I understand.

Robert

It may be "interesting" to you but if true makes perfect sense. They have less exposure to the game. By coming to this board they are being proactive and making an effort to learn.

I don't think the name calling was an accusation, I think it was a statement of fact, at least relative to this thread.

Rut, take your own advice, you're the one that didn't understand the simple request fronm the OP.

The OP never made a demand nor told anyone how to post. It was a simple REQUEST. If you choose to ignore or feel the request is already being met so be it.

Do you treat all requests made of you with such harshness and sarcasm?

.

I didn't read "upset" in his comments. I read frustration over your inability to comprehend his request and a slight dismissal of your intolerance and arrogance.

Is there even a glimmer of a point here? I don't always get along with JR, but he'd dead on here. This is simple. If you have a question about a specific rule set, post it. if you don't know whether a certain answer is about a certain rule set, and it's not clear, ask. Most of the time it's FED, and yes - if someone says Friday night you can probably assume it was FED. If it wasn't, it's their responsibility to say so, or they will get a wrong answer from this group.

I don't understand what you're even arguing about.

I think we're arguing about how often posters here fulfill that responsibility. Also, people don't come here just to ask questions, but also to learn from others' questions & answers. So even if the initial post and responses are all by people who know which rules they're discussing, they may be read, maybe as much as years later, by other people who don't.

This is not the only forum, nor the only subject, where I think participants should be reminded of that last fact. Too many online forums start out aspiring to universality, but tend to become clubby without anyone's intending them to be so, just because people start assuming knowledge on the part of the participants which tends to exclude strangers.

Robert

I guess my point is ... why are we arguing about how often posters fulfill that responsibility. You say 10%, JR says 90, I say 50. Who cares how common that is. The point has been made that we should do it. Move along. A couple more posts, and this horse will be deader than the Tim McClelland Slow Call post on the baseball board.

Don,

This was largely a sarcastic comment. If you read the basketball board, it might make more sense to you. It was kind of an inside joke. ;)


When you call someone a name because they tell the truth (because you can ask anyone for clarification on a rule and it is rare someone will not give you that information), that was a little more than an accusation. I guess you have to arrogant and a dick because you give an opinion. ;)

I did not understand why someone needed to create an entire thread to tell people something they already did (do not be offended, that is a personal opinion). And when I saw the number of posts made by the person, and the time they were here. It was clear this person did not read very many posts (or pay attention) to what goes on here. It is very common people give all the rules information and is very helpful in doing so. I know I do not answer any question on this board without trying to clarify the rule we are talking about when requested. I will even say I do not know what the college rule is but here is the NF interpretation.


Anytime you make a post, you open yourself up for what others think. This is the nature of the internet and discussion boards. I had every right to point out that he needed to stick around and realize that already takes place. He might not have been aware. Who knows? Also I personally do not care what he knows. This is a public forum. If he cannot handle responses than a person should never post on any internet site anywhere. I can tell you my response was very tame compared to many others with a similar theme. And the fact that he said he was from a different country might have had many harsh comments thrown his way under the right circumstances.

I do not consider what I said was harsh. But then again I was not raised in this insane world that requires every comment to apologize for telling you what we might think. If someone did not curse at me or call me an offensive name, I would not consider that harsh. If what I said was harsh, some of the people here would never be able to handle the teacher in a real estate class I am currently taking when he answers questions very direct and keeps everyone constantly laughing. I guess everyone does not have very think skin.

I could have said the guy was stupid and dump and all I said was that "we already do that here and if you had been around you might realize that." I heard much more harsh language at the football game I worked last night. And I did not see anyone getting upset with that use of language like a few are here right now. ;)

So are you saying that most people here are arrogant? I have been here for some time and most posters are people that have good hearts and want to learn. We might argue, but they are arguing for what they feel is right. I would not think that makes them arrogant because they might not be clear from time to time. The core group of people here has a lot of experience and they can be very helpful if you ASK THEM THE RIGHT QUESTIONS SO THEY CAN HELP YOU!!!

People answer questions mostly from their experience. I have been around this site for almost 10 years and I have been around a couple other officiating sites for around that same time (many people had to register on this site around 2000, so the date is not accurate as to when some of us first registered). So if someone works mostly NF rules, they are not going to be aware of all the NCAA rules and interpretations. And if you are from Texas, you might not be aware of all the all the NF rules and interpretations. And the average official knows most people work only NF rules. I have no idea what they do all over the world. I do know if you ask what rules you want an interpretation from, I do know how to answer or not answer the question.

Now you have called people arrogant because they did not answer the way you wanted them to. I have not called a single person a name who supported this guy or even took me on. I just see this as very ironic.

Peace