If you overhear something...

PSU213 · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 10, 2007, 05:00pm

I had NF in mind, but anyone can answer. This did not happen, just a little something I thought up (nothing too great by I hope it sparks some discussion)...

We all know the "wrong ball" ("where's the tee?", etc.) play is illegal. We all know this, there should be no debate. If a coach asked the R/U about the play during their pregame conference with him they would tell him it is an illegal play.

Here's the question: While near the sideline you hear a coach tell a player something to the effect of "take the snap, walk towards the sideline yelling 'wrong ball,' once you are outside the defenders, take off toward the end zone." At that point do you say anything to the coach about the blatant illegality of the play? How else might you approach it?

OverAndBack · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 10, 2007, 05:09pm

Just like a foul that's not a foul until the snap, I'd wait until they ran it and then call it back. They could always change their minds or the defense could call time out. Any number of things could happen.

JRutledge · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 10, 2007, 05:58pm

What O&B said.

Peace

TXMike · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 10, 2007, 06:59pm

Preventive officiating, let him know before he goes that you are going to flag it if they do what he has directed. He will likely have to call a timeout or go ahead and run the play which will be flagged but at least he was warned.

cmathews · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 10, 2007, 07:16pm

I see this as no different than telling him before the game.

Tom.OH · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 10, 2007, 10:31pm

This past Saturday in a 9-10 year old pee wee game pregame the coach told us about a trick play he was going to run. You know which one it is! I told him it was a 15 yard USC. I asked him if he had seen it on Utube, he said he saw it on Real TV. I also told it would not work because the league supplies the game ball. He walked back to the sidelines, head down like we took away his favorite toy.

MJT · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 10, 2007, 11:10pm

As Mike says, tell him he cannot do it, why, and what the penalty would be. Prevent something like that "if" you can.

Canfootball52 · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 11, 2007, 09:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I ain't saying a thing.

I agree. It's best not to go looking for trouble. By saying something, you're likely to start an unnecessary argument with the Coach.

Canfootball52 · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 11, 2007, 09:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

This past Saturday in a 9-10 year old pee wee game pregame the coach told us about a trick play he was going to run. You know which one it is! I told him it was a 15 yard USC. I asked him if he had seen it on Utube, he said he saw it on Real TV. I also told it would not work because the league supplies the game ball. He walked back to the sidelines, head down like we took away his favorite toy.

Like I tell my daughters, just because they do it on T.V. does not mean it's right.

TXMike · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 11, 2007, 09:54am

You cannot have an argument if only 1 person is arguing. All you are doing is saying if it is run it is flagged. He can rant and rave all he wants but there is no further response required from you. Maybe the reason you fellas are so quick to think there will be a confrontation is because you are used to having confrontations. I have given warnings like that many times and never had an argument.

MD Longhorn · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 11, 2007, 10:44am

Pregame, we answer whatever questions the coach has and discuss plays like this. During the game, I'm not saying a word. Not my job to tell the coach what to run, or what is legal/illegal.

grantsrc · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 11, 2007, 10:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

This past Saturday in a 9-10 year old pee wee game pregame the coach told us about a trick play he was going to run. You know which one it is! I told him it was a 15 yard USC. I asked him if he had seen it on Utube, he said he saw it on Real TV. I also told it would not work because the league supplies the game ball. He walked back to the sidelines, head down like we took away his favorite toy.

Heck, it even made it to Sports Illustrated this past week. I wonder how many letters they will receive about it because it made no mention that the play was illegal.

TXMike · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 11, 2007, 11:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Pregame, we answer whatever questions the coach has and discuss plays like this. During the game, I'm not saying a word. Not my job to tell the coach what to run, or what is legal/illegal.

Mike
I know if you have had any degree of training in Texas you have heard "preventative officiating" over and over and over. That is what it is about.

Warrenkicker · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 11, 2007, 11:54am

I agree with all the ideas above on stopping an illegal play before they have any chance of running it. However the original question was not illegal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSU213

..."take the snap, walk towards the sideline yelling 'wrong ball,' once you are outside the defenders, take off toward the end zone."...

It is illegal to deceive the defense into thinking the ball won't be snapped or that there is a problem prior to the snap. There is no rule about doing things after the snap that would make the defense think there was a problem. If the offense wants to snap the ball without having anyone move to block and just let the QB walk across the field then good luck to them. They are just asking for a loss on the play.

cmathews · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 11, 2007, 02:08pm

that type of deception has nothing to do with the game of football.....nothing at all, not even close. Warren if there really were a problem and the qb was walking to the sidelines, are you saying that the defense could blast him??? Because, if you don't allow the defense to blast him in the actual dead ball situation, how can you expect them to know that they can in this situation......SHUT IT DOWN....preferably before it makes it to the huddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warrenkicker

I agree with all the ideas above on stopping an illegal play before they have any chance of running it. However the original question was not illegal.

It is illegal to deceive the defense into thinking the ball won't be snapped or that there is a problem prior to the snap. There is no rule about doing things after the snap that would make the defense think there was a problem. If the offense wants to snap the ball without having anyone move to block and just let the QB walk across the field then good luck to them. They are just asking for a loss on the play.